Are Titles Necessary Before Breeding? - Page 1

Pedigree Database


by Melody_Gray on 05 January 2007 - 06:01

I was wondering. Do people here still believe that your dog should have titles and breed surveys before producing a litter of puppies by said dogs? If not, what would be a good excuse for not having these titles? Would you go ahead and breed the dog anyway? Are "certified" hips with good ratings enough? What about a BH is that considered far enough of a title to make your dog breedworthy? I wonder if anyone here would like to educate us on what we should do to improve the German Shepherd? Please enlighten us. Thank you! Mel

by EchoMeadows on 05 January 2007 - 06:01

Neccesary... Obviously not Preffered... Absolutely ! Just my opinon, I'm allowed right ?


by gsdsch3v on 05 January 2007 - 06:01

Some titles like the police dog titles from state agencies and FEMA and SAR titles are not recognized for breed surveys yet these dogs are just as good or better and in my opinion more proven than the dog with "just" a schutzhund title, however since it is not recognized you can't breed survey. (yes there are a lot of good schutzhund dogs out there, infact my working dogs come out of a schutzhund background)


by Bob-O on 05 January 2007 - 07:01

I would say that titles are very nice to have. With that said, what kind and how much? One typically sees a sire titled all the way to SchH3, while the dam is usually limited to SchH1. I understand the latter, because once the SchH1 title is obtained (nowadays required for the breed survey-recent rule change) the bitch is typically ready to produce, and of course her useful life as a brood bitch is considerably shorter than that of a male. I guess in the end, what does a breeder wish to produce? Future V- and VA- conformation contenders, working dogs of correct structure as well as temperament, or just dogs with reasonably good conformation who will be but excellent companions and pets? Or a mix of all of these which is many times the unintended result. We would all love for all of our dogs to have the highest level of titles possible, but that is not available for many, if not most of us. And, the titles alone do not tell the entire story, just as a breed survey or a high achievement in either conformation or work performance does not. What is the TOTAL DOG? Are hips certified as "good" good enough? In my opinion yes they are, provided the dog who possesses these hips does so normally (as compared to siblings) and is not just the lucky one. If he/she are only the lucky one from the litter, then perhaps "good" or even "excellent" is not good enough. Does the earning of but a BH make a dog breedworthy? In days past it allowed the dog to be judged in a breed survey, so at least for many, many years the S.V. thought it was sufficient. I think the change has come about because too many "weak" dogs were obtaining a decent breed survey and should not have been used in a breeding programmme. To improve the GSD? Demand that the S.V. and the A.K.C. adhere 100% to the standard described by the F.C.I.. Yes, I know that will probably never happen. Change the acceptable Zuchtwert average of a male and female destined for breeding from 100 to 90. Yes, I know that will probably never happen either. Develop and use databases to track who is producing defects (bad word, I know) other than hip dysplasie and incorporate that into the Zuchtwert, or a different Zuchtwert that can be summed. And yes, I know that will probably never happen. Not that I am a pessimistic individual-I am an optimist with a heavy dose of reality. In the end what can we do as breeders? Perhaps stop waiting for the slow wheels of the S.V. and the A.K.C. to turn, and decide to force the issue by first improving the dogs that we produce to adhere 100% to the standard. Excellent questions, Melody. Just my 1.5 cents. Bob-O

by Do right and fear no one on 05 January 2007 - 07:01

I will be verbally beat up for this, but I have stated my case in previous discussions here that IMO their is nothing wrong with breeding GSD's for the family pet. Here is a link to some previous discussions about this subject (sort of). Fact is, most GSD's that are born, end up as family pets, nothing more. We love GSD's for their loyalty, beauty, and their crime deterence factor. Very, very few are superhero dogs. Would we only let humans that are college graduates "breed"? Absolutely not. Would we only let Beagles who are titled rabbit hunters breed? Would we only let show titled Labradors or Chihuahua's breed. No. There is no more noble GSD than the one who is a member of a family structure and feels that way. The SCH III or BH or whatever titled dog, is many, many times, unhappy and living in a kennel or often crated, because of his/her titles (insurance risks, worry about mistakes, etc, etc). Why does almost everybody on this site aspire to "improve the GSD"? They are damn near perfect already. Enjoy them, don't mistreat them, take care to do the best you can for them and their offspring. I would rather that people looking for family pets would just simply go to the shelter and "save" any breed from that kind of life, than have back yard breeders pumping out GSD puppies, but there are caring breeders of GSD's that do not title their dogs. There are also uncaring GSD breeders who have dozens of titled dogs they are breeding. Titles can be "bought", we all know that.If it is important to YOU, then get your dog/s titled. It's your dog. But if your dog is not titled and you want to breed it, well, it's still your dog. Do what you want in that regard. Some discussions on this board remind me of when I was a young man driving a 57" Chevy and racing every other young man in a "hot" car who looked at me at a red light and revved his engine. I do not knock the people who train for "sport" or those who train for "work". I just don't think that, for a GSD, being a family pet is like being a "bum". He or she won't think so either. I am sure.

by Cassidy Kay on 05 January 2007 - 07:01

Bob-o I agree with you 100% and I have to say that every time I read a post that you have written I respect you and your knowledge a little bit more. You have so many wonderful things to offer those of us who are still willing to learn. Thank you and I hope to read more of your posts.

by EchoMeadows on 05 January 2007 - 10:01

Bob-0 Right on the money as always Do Right, WOW, now you just put into lehman's terms the entire sum !!!! Excellently written and very well said, Excellent comment. "Titles can be bought" I have heard this said more and more all the time, I think earning them is much more difficult, We are at least doing our very best, But I agree with you all here, Titles seem not to be the "end all"


by Sue-Ann on 05 January 2007 - 11:01

titles necessary? Not for the breeder in the US registering with AKC. Love the die hards who hold themselves to a higher standard than AKC requires. Just depends which ballpark you're playing in...little league, minors or pro ball. But those who play pro ball do get higher salaries right?!

by EchoMeadows on 05 January 2007 - 12:01

LOL, Sue Ann, and there ya have it in a Nut Shell, OMG that is awesome !! No kidding though very very true. :-)


by animules on 05 January 2007 - 12:01

Bob-O, excellent.


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