Are Titles Necessary Before Breeding? - Page 3

The point is EchoMeadows that people should be breeding to improve this breed. There are plenty of pets and thousands who are put down each year in this country because they lack a good home. I am reacting to your breeding practices. It is my opinion and you can take it for what it is worth. But people breeding for money and to make "pets" are ruining this breed as they have already done with many other breeds. It is not my wish to be rude to you, but to make you think about this.

ok I am thinking... But did you read anything I said, We are providing sport dogs, k-9's, and SAR and therapy dogs, what is wrong with that ?? why do you even bring up pets ? Unless of course you are once Again reffering the "Oops" litter then that's a low blow bunch of crap, Many many breeder have had these accidents and don't take half the shit for it that I have taken for it, I admitted it here only to gather information on how to properly place the litter, So my BAD for admitting I guess I should have just euthanized them all and denied it to my grave what a bunch of **** that would be, Sorry I'm HONEST !!! Good Greif can we please move past one single mistake !!!!!!!!!!!!! You all come accross as the holy grail of advisors and good intentioned we'll help you with this and that, and quite frankly I have always appreciated that from each and every one of you, Even have offered up what we have used on certain things, or done in this or that occation blah blah blah, That is what this is about, or so I thought, I thought it was all about being honest and asking for help and therefore broadening our knowledge base, EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US !!!!! APPARENTLY I WAS WRONG If hodie, that is not what you are reffering to then please tell me what is so bad about our breeding program ?? Breeding only OFA Good or better, Breeding only dogs that have Excellent rated temperaments, correct amount of teeth, correct coat type, right number of toes, 2 eyes not 3, standing ears not floppy, 4 legs not 6, I mean what the heck ????? NO we don't have titles on our dogs YET !! Obviously that is not the END ALL If it were what a sad state we would be in with this breed. Have plans on even trying KKL too, But hell what's the point anymore you all have so diligently dubbed me the Bastard Shit of the devil himself so who cares anymore. All because I brought up the point of brucellosis test being an important step before breeding but hell at this point maybe I'd like to enduce a brucellosis epidemic just like Zmeli is trying to do by being much more than naieve and much more irresponsible than I have ever been "Proven" to be, But hey it must be more fun to oust someone like myself who actually USED TO GIVE A CRAP !! I'm done here !! have a nice life ya all.

Echo, this is pretty low. Hodie has been one of the most upfront, genuine people on this sight. He has not badgered or unjustly critised. He even took time to explain himself to you, but you continue to lash out. It appears he only has the good of the GSD at heart. That's what most people on this sight claim. He actually seems to practice what he preaches.

Spook, don't take this the wrong way, please. Hodie is a "she", not a "he" and a wonderful contributor to this messageboard, as you also have said. I just thought I would let you know. Bob-O

Bob-O, I stand corrected and she is a wonderful contributor.

Bob O and Spook101, thank you for your comments. But I seem to have hit a nerve here. I will try, once again, to clarify what it is I am trying to say. EchoMeadows, I think it is very strange that you consider other naïve, but do not get what I am saying at all. For instance, a knowledgeable breeder would not have to ask about how to place pups of any litter, including a so called "oops" litter that should not have happened. How naïve is that? But no, I was not referring specifically to this "mistake". But let me be very blunt. I could ask you to back up your statements about providing K-9, SAR and sport dogs, but won't. Apparently none of your pups have been sold as pets? Who says your dogs have excellent temperament? You? You should know that there is almost no validity to one saying a given dog is this or that. That is, after all, why there are standards and judges etc. To quote you in a previous post where you crucified someone else with half baked knowledge, "YOUR NOT DOING ANYTHING TO IMPROVE THE BREED", I will ask what are you doing to improve the breed? Continued below:

Besides OFA good ratings you say your dogs have, what other qualities do your dogs have that suggests that they should be bred? Correct coat, two eyes, ears and four legs are the most basic qualities of all dog breeds I know. Such things say nothing about the quality of a given dog or whether it should be bred. Ask yourself the difficult question of "Why am I really breeding dogs?" I bet if you were honest, you would come up with different answers than you have given so far. And the same question could be asked of others too. By the way, if I had a dollar for every person who told me they were "going" to do this or that with the dogs they are breeding, including meet ANY kind of performance criteria or conformational criteria for a working dog as they continued to breed, I would be rich. Most of these people talk big, but do nothing about it. I initially was not, in particular, specifically referring to you. But, can you meet the criteria that Gustav, for instance, sets out above for people who are breeding? I doubt it. Anyone can take two dogs and let them out (accidentally or not) and have litters. One cannot seek to improve something unless they know everything possible about it and that includes dogs. Plans for a KKL? Do you even know what is required for that? You have years to go before ever getting close to that. Part of my point is that no, a Schutzhund title is not the only thing that makes a dog worthy of being considered for breeding and I have already expressed my opinion that there are some very good dogs without Schutzhund titles. But you seem to have almost no understanding of what other things should be considered besides a dog having two eyes, four legs etc. No one dubs you anything but with your outburst, it appears I have hit a nerve and you too know that at least some of what has been written about your breeding practices may, indeed, be questionable. Again, I was not at all trying to single you out initially but I had hoped you would think about what I was saying. But now I have had to illustrate my points by being blunt. The fact is. the breed IS in a sad state of affairs and it is EXACTLY because people do not think and learn and study everything possible before considering whether to breed. They just do it and most do it simply because it provides an income for them that they would otherwise not have. Until this stops, the decline of the breed is almost a given. If it does not stop, it will hardly matter whether one does a brucellosis test, because the breed essentially will have been completely ruined.

Hey Do right and fear No one: I use to sit at a red light in a '89 289 High performance 4 on the floor, and any one that looked at me in the lane beside me got a challenge. It was the super sport ford that they only made a few of and some had cobra kits in them.. A year or two later I tried the 440 Dodge magnum which was too light in the rear and it only had to fishtail on me one time and I headed for the dealer and traded it in...........My husband and I owned and automotive shop and he let me buy a new car everyother year of my choosing until we had children , then all that stopped...I had fun.....The year before he died he bought me a mustang convertible so I could show off the first german shepherd I ever owned which we imported for a guard dog in our business. Just take a dog with u and u get a lot of attention...especially in a convertible......No titles are not always the ultimate but having them enables ur kennel to be sure that the dogs u breed can be traced and dna also assures us that also...I cring when I see pedigrees from never never land and who can vouch for these dogs ? There is not a titled dog anywhere so how do u explain where they all came from? forget the akc papers, I prosecuted a few in Houston for illegal papers , and changing names and registering germans with new names from dogs now dead and I nailed the breeder flat dab in the jail.......

Yellow Rose. Hope you don't get upset, but my 57, Chevy, 327, four on the floor, used to eat 389's for breakfast :) Seriously though. I expected to be villified on this topic for mu initial comments and I was not. What does a guy have to do to get some attention around here :) My grandmother raised me and she always said I as a "Philadelphia Lawyer" because I would argue the other side of anyone's thoughts on any subject, just for the sake of "verbal combat" She was right. I sometimes argue on this web site totally against how I actually think, just so I can get more information and I guess, for the fun of the competition. I'm just too damn competitive I guess. Hey, Yellow Rose, are you revving your engine and looking at me? Vrooom :)

Would assume you posters were "registered" with the county and the state when you were born and a birth certificate was issued. At some point you were registered with the SSA and a number was issued so the Feds knew about you. Anyone should be able to speak up and demand to know why you were born before your MOM had her PhD? Question why your Father would have married her without one? Why were you allowed to be registered????? The government doesn't judge? Just registers--- makes sense. AKC doesn't judge--- just registers. I wouldn't have considered marrying my wife without xrays and proper registration but I could NOT be convinced to wait until she was "titled"! The sire of my puppy isn't "titled"??? SHUSH! If you don't tell him his daddy did NOT go to college he won't know AND further--- it will make NO difference to him. Spook its just BABBLE! My post and yours!!!! We make as much sense as anyone else when all is in perspective. BobO I love your posts also, and respect them, but I am truly waiting to read one that I can "see your smile" as you typed. If there is anyone out there that doesn't realize I am "smiling and chuckling" email me privately and I will send picture!! Morgan