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by gsdstudent on 24 January 2014 - 10:01
I would like to respond to Mindhunt report from a behavorist who says that most of the dog agression cases she handles are caused by a shock collar. [ not a quote from mindhunt] . I have helped many a dog owner over the years with ''agression issues''. I would place blame for the majority of these issues on poor socialization and no training. I find that if the dog has been ''trained'' it was a poor philosopy or poor implimatation of techniques, not a certain collar, which made for agression issues. I think that the assertion that there is a single root cause to agression issues [ from a piece of training equipment] is in itself a sales technique and not the truth.
by Mindhunt on 24 January 2014 - 12:01
GSDStudent, she is the last call before euthanzing for most of the dogs and yes, many are from misuse of e-collars, some dogs were trained using 2 e-collars, one on the neck and another on the underside of the belly toward the genitals (still have not figured out why someone would use one there). I agree, many dogs lack proper socialization and poor or no training. I have a couple of large dogs on the block that are restrained using electric fence and they are very aggressive toward dogs and small children.
Momo, the joys of reading what someone says means you can't always get the finer nuances of what was intended lol
HiredDog, my friend does not believe in e-collars, simple as that and she was trained in it's proper use. As for dogs wanting to please, have you read the latest research on dog's emotional and cognitive abilities? (Not trying to be insulting, more curious). It was specific to dogs not other canids.
Many times dogs are used in clinical psychology research for areas like emotional regulation, cognition, and more specific areas like motivation, curiosity, seeking/wanting, and so on. A mentor of mine (PhD in Research Psychology) has studied curiosity and motivation using comparisions between dogs, human children, and human adults. Amazing the similarities...
Momo, the joys of reading what someone says means you can't always get the finer nuances of what was intended lol
HiredDog, my friend does not believe in e-collars, simple as that and she was trained in it's proper use. As for dogs wanting to please, have you read the latest research on dog's emotional and cognitive abilities? (Not trying to be insulting, more curious). It was specific to dogs not other canids.
Many times dogs are used in clinical psychology research for areas like emotional regulation, cognition, and more specific areas like motivation, curiosity, seeking/wanting, and so on. A mentor of mine (PhD in Research Psychology) has studied curiosity and motivation using comparisions between dogs, human children, and human adults. Amazing the similarities...
by gsdstudent on 24 January 2014 - 12:01
Mindhunt; with all due respect to you and by no way do I want to argue . . there could be a huge difference from ''most cases'' to '' many cases''. I only wish to challange a statement which I feel could effect proper training/conditioning of a dog. There are people who read this chat room, without the ability to question reported imformation as valid, and might come to a wrong conclusion.
by Hired Dog on 24 January 2014 - 12:01
No mindhunt, I have not, I am sure it would be an interesting read however. Please tell your friend that the only reason dogs do what they do, is to make their lives better. Once again, if dogs were so interested in pleasing us, there would be no need for any chokers, prongs or E collars, no dog would ever challenge us, none would need to be "payed" as I alluded to earlier.
I am very curious as to where/who trained your friend on E collars and why do people make such a huge deal about them? I can hurt a dog a lot more with a flat collar or one of those "gentle leaders" then I can with an E collar, if I decide to use it the wrong way.
As far as the E collar around the waist, NOT the genitals, it can be used this way for many reasons, one being to teach the dog to always stay with your leg as you turn or move, but, there are many other applications as well.
Oh, the dogs acting aggressively behind the E fence towards the kids, would act the same way in any other setting too, the E fence has nothing to do with it.
I am very curious as to where/who trained your friend on E collars and why do people make such a huge deal about them? I can hurt a dog a lot more with a flat collar or one of those "gentle leaders" then I can with an E collar, if I decide to use it the wrong way.
As far as the E collar around the waist, NOT the genitals, it can be used this way for many reasons, one being to teach the dog to always stay with your leg as you turn or move, but, there are many other applications as well.
Oh, the dogs acting aggressively behind the E fence towards the kids, would act the same way in any other setting too, the E fence has nothing to do with it.
by gsdstudent on 24 January 2014 - 13:01
dogs do what is good for dog. [ a lot like people]
by Two Moons on 24 January 2014 - 13:01
In all my days almost every problem dog I've known was do to human error, only a handful were what I'd like to call a defective dog and those are put down.
As for training, I must be rare to not routinly use e-collars in training, it is a valuable tool for certain stuations only as far as I'm concerned.
A really good dog is usually smarter than it's trainer, once you understand that you can usually put it to good use as you train.
As for training, I must be rare to not routinly use e-collars in training, it is a valuable tool for certain stuations only as far as I'm concerned.
A really good dog is usually smarter than it's trainer, once you understand that you can usually put it to good use as you train.
by Hired Dog on 24 January 2014 - 14:01
What do you train your dogs for Moons?
by Two Moons on 24 January 2014 - 14:01
You mean why or how?
by Hired Dog on 24 January 2014 - 14:01
No, I mean, what do you train them for, what purpose, sport, work, fun...
by Mindhunt on 24 January 2014 - 15:01
Hired Dog, was not referring to e-fence as causing the aggression, was more pointing out that the owner has not socialized the dogs because he wants them to be "protective". (I went back and read my post, oopsy, forgot to include that last bit lol). I would prefer to agree to disagree on the e-collar, personally, I don't like them, have never had to use them. Any tool can be improperly used and cause harm and there I agree with you wholeheartedly. I will see if I can find the actual articles and PM you a link to where they can be located on the internet. Much of the data supports the conclusions (I'm combining conclusions for the sake of simplicity) that dogs' emotions are extremely similar to young human children and that the exact same brain structures in both dogs and children are activated (hence the comment that dogs like children want to please and not just make their life better). Both dogs and children develop attachments (caregivers for children and owners/handlers for dogs), this is rooted in Bowlby's and Ainsworth's attachment theory and this has been proven empirically for both dogs and children (Bowlby and Ainsworth worked with infants and children but their theory has been successfully generalized to dogs, per the research). Also a dog's cognitive abilities are similar to that of very bright/gifted children (per WISC, WJ, and SB cognitive test results done on the children) and in some areas approach adult cognitive abilities. Research has shown dogs have a sense of humor, love to play for the sake of enjoyment not to strengthen skills for hunting and the like. Not saying dogs should be treated like children, but, bottom line, dogs are pretty amazing. 
GSDStudent, in my friend's case, sadly, it is "most cases" not "many cases". No one should use an e-collar without proper training ever. But I get your point.
GSDStudent, in my friend's case, sadly, it is "most cases" not "many cases". No one should use an e-collar without proper training ever. But I get your point.
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