Another Attempt to Take Over the AWDF - Page 12

Smiley, I feel sorry for you.
Abuse is abuse, and 200 and more dollars the month ( !!!) sounds ridiculous in my ears.
And, really, a club with too many active members?
What´s the problem on your side of the pond?
I hope, you´ll find a good club soon.
 

Smiley, your negative newbie experience is VERY common in the United States with IPO/schutzhund clubs.  Just do a search on this forum and you will find HUNDREDS of tales of woe.  bubbabooboo has also pointed out some training issues/outcomes that IPO folks don't like to acknowledge, but cetainly exist in real life with varying degrees. 

The FH1-2 Tracking test and IPO-FH International are not offered by many clubs in the USA, it does exist, but is difficult to find offered at IPO/schutzhund trials and is nearly impossible to find a group or club who can help train and polish up technique.  Yes, as some have said AKC tracking dogs do have trouble with the much shorter obedience styled FPr1-3 tracking that is also included the IPO1-3 title, BUT what they always fail to mention is that dogs trained for the FPr and IPO1-3 tracking have VERY LITTLE chance in passing an IPO-FH or AKC TD.  I have seen quite a few dogs with the TDX and VST succesfully go on to earn a BH then FH, BUT I HAVE NEVER seen an FPr/IPO1-3 tracking trained dog pass a TD, TDX, VST or FH.  NEVER!  The IPO folks usually show up to certify for the AKC tracking test, thinking its the same as the IPO1-3 traking and then fail miserably at the certification test.  BTW, they never come back.  Doesn't mean it can't be done, they just haven't come out my way for me to see otherwise.  Then there is also the less well known STp 1-3 Article search indication test, but thats whole other story as well.

Now, what I recommend, since you are on the east coast, give up on IPO/schutzhund clubs.  You already have a scorebook you just need to be an active member of an AWDF club to enter trials in ANY venue.  Go straight to your nearest French Ring or Mondio club, in general, they WANT new people to try the sport.  You'll also still be able to enter schutzhund trials here and there, but can work instead with a private trainer to achieve YOUR GOALS and not a clubs goals.  Also, as mentioned in another thread, they can't use the stick anymore in IPO/schutzhund, so may as well jump ship and go all the way straight to Mondio "pom poms".  Get a membership with a voting eligable AWDF affiliated club and NEVER look back.  If you still want to do IPO/schutzhund events focus on the FH and STp events, do bitework in another venue, its just not worth the heartache to do otherwise. 

Also becuase you are on the east coast you can train for HGH style herding, which is a breed survey eligable title, accepted by FCI, just like an IPO3.  There are a couple of clubs on that side of the country you can train at. 

http://www.whitecloversheepfarm.com/sh-events.htm

You can also train for the Rettungshunde RH title with the Search Dog Organization of North America (SDONA), the RH is also a breed survey eligable title, accepted by FCI, just like an IPO3

http://www.sdona.org/faqs/

http://www.sdona.org/training-events/

Think about the big picture, the schutzhund guys only want folks interested in thier style of bitework and training methods, but that doesn't mean you have to abandon trialing and training for FCI approved dogs sports.  Just join an AWDF club and take votes aways from USCA.  Its not like they really wanted you anyway.

You can´t compare AKC TD(X) with FCI IPO.
Within IPO there are three (!) routines, tracking, obedience, and bitework, and all 3 phases are important.
AKC asks for tracking only.
For the tracking "specialists" there are FH1 and FH2, and everybody involved in IPO sports does know, that FH trials are difficult and a lot of work.
But, talking about German Shepherds, a tracking title doesn´t implement a good "German Shepherd", there is a reason, why THREE phases are asked, not only one, followed by a breed survey and a show result, if you want to breed your dog.
But I´m with you about the clubs - the dog doesn´t care. Go wherever it´s fun for you and for your dog.
If the IPO clubs in your surrounding really are this stupid, try something else.

@Suzie, please re-read and re-think the content of my post, I was not comparing the FULL IPO routine, just the overall skills the dog has to track in ANY venue.  bubbabooboo correctly touched upon this issue of the IPO/schutzhund trained dogs "actual, real world, tracking skills" earlier in the thread and I added more info to that thought.  I was pointing out what I have seen from FPr1-3 trained dogs, being handled by single venue IPO/schutzhund trainers, MANY of which think the AKC & FH events are basically the same thing, when they are not, and are then surprised when they suck.
 

Within IPO there are three (!) routines, tracking, obedience, and bitework, and all 3 phases are important.
AKC asks for tracking only.
For the tracking "specialists" there are FH1 and FH2, and everybody involved in IPO sports does know, that FH trials are difficult and a lot of work.

Thats what I said!  But we can disagree about what american IPO sports folks personally think about the "value" of the FH as a whole

I don´t know what "Americans" think about the value of the FH, but here in Germany everybody knows that it´s hard work

Back to the original topic, if there are 5737 total members in the AWDF and 3645 of them are USCA members that should be a real eye opener to how popular the "bitework only venue" truly is in the USA, which is "not very popular".  I'm not knocking the purpose of IPO/schutzhund or the others like Mondo etc, BUT this should be a wake up call that the HGH, FH, RH and all the other FCI herding titles need to be recognized, offered and training programs EXPANDED throughout the AWDF clubs. 

Why? To boost overall membership numbers, period.  This is a "life or death" descision that needs to be made, WILLINGLY, deciding to expand the trial offerings or wither on the vine with younger prospective members going AKC.  I think the recent guest membership of the AHBA club is a very small step in that direction. Long term though the  Hovawart, Herding Breed, Cane Corso guests clubs need to become voting AWDF clubs, even if USCA folks don't like the idea of such.  New blood and ideas are desparately needed at this point.

Momo, this is not Europe, people here are not interested in working dogs, they want a pet, period. There is a huge difference in how people feel about working dogs in the USA and in Europe. The younger generation could care less about it, they have lives to live and after working 12 hour days, most people dont want to go to some field and spend 4 hours trying to get a dog to look at them.
In Europe is different because its a culture thing for the older generation, going to the club and training its part of your "genetics" if you will, its much more then just dog training there.


 

Thanks, guys!! Momos...wow!! That is all a lot of information for me to digest but thanks for sharing your thoughts!!

The younger generation could care less about it, they have lives to live and after working 12 hour days, most people dont want to go to some field and spend 4 hours trying to get a dog to look at them.
In Europe is different because its a culture thing for the older generation, going to the club and training its part of your "genetics" if you will, its much more then just dog training there.

Nor should there be any expectation that an american dog owner would normally think to be at the training field for 4 hours in one stretch.  Compromises with those new to the venue is going to be a nessessity of survival for non-AKC venues in the VERY NEAR future.  May as well embrace the idea now.

I'm not disagreeing with the above noted overall ameircan sentiments toward dog training, but that doesn't invalidate my point that the AWDF needs to figure out how to expand its membership to include the younger generation in order to survive both CULTURALLY & LEGISLATIVELY.  You can't ignore younger folks simply because "they don't get it yet", working dog clubs need to get these folks feet wet, even if its painfully slow and frustrating to implament.  To believe and act otherwise means you are passively welcoming the demise of bitework based dog sports.  Thats where the non-bitework FCI sports come in, to bridge the age & cultural disconnect.
 

Thanks, guys!! Momos...wow!! That is all a lot of information for me to digest but thanks for sharing your thoughts!!

Smiley, as you research, remember the HGH, STp, FH & RH titles are recorded in your scorebook just like an IPO1-3.