Drago vom Patriot - Page 5

Keven, thats why i said "most" and not "all" .....people training at club level and working to keep their dogs together enough to title are not looking to see if they have any holes in them....take a chance to put all that hard work in jeopardy with testing, which isn't included on the field? I actually had one TD tell me he doesn't train any dogs anyplce but on the field where the trial is going to happen for those dogs. And he doesn't ever take/train any dogs at places like Tractor Supply because there "AINT NO TRIAL AT TRACTOR SUPPLY!!" ( he actually yelled that at me, lol. Guess he was adament about where IPO dogs are trained, lol.)
I know there are good trainers who will dig deep into their dog's capability and will exspose chinks if they exist. But in the main....not so.
Btw, i'm not implying Drago produces weak nerves, but if they aren't tested, who knows.

Joanro,

I have experienced all you described as well.

However, it is not from that pool of IPO participants that I would seek my next dog; nor do most people desiring "sport" performance or work.

Thus, it is not from that perspective that I would disparage or discount the merits of IPO as one of many useful metrics for evaluation of breeding prospects.

Kevin

I agree with you, Keven. However, people are advised on this forum, to go to their local sch club when looking for a GSD pup. What they are likely to encounted is as described in my above post, so they think that is the berries. My point (no pun intended, lol) is that the above describes a large portion of ipo in this country and those people are bragging on the titles when they breed dogs which have been trained by rote in a very controled environment.
Another thing, is that points are emphasized so much that the average ( not the aspiring podeum handler) person thinks the points encompase the whole dog....big mestake if they are looking for a GSD that is a representative of the breed standard.
One of my pup buyers sent his dog to Germany to be trained and titled. Five or six months after arriving in Germany, the dog made ipo 1 a couple weeks after he turned two...high in trial tracking, high in trial in protection, ob high eighties. The owner talks about the points, the points...I told him don't worry so much about the points, "How did the dog do in the trial is most important."

So, for the prospective puppy buyer it comes down to due diligence and the ability to wade through the marketing hype in making a proper selection - Drago, for instance, is obviously hyped, but in my opinion deservingly so when paired with a good bitch.

You/me/we can can "help" somewhat with the lay person's education; but, in the end we know what "sells" most any consumer driven product; hype, bells and whistles, and spin...  However, having done that education, Neither you nor I am not responsible for their ultimate decision.

Lastly, the hard "core" of breeding while no doubt altered by sport remains. With diligence and proper contacts, I can most certainly find a dog from among our working breeds (IPO, mondIo, KNPV, etc..., all) up for most any desired task.

Without those "sports'" that pool from which to draw will diminish or die entirely; thus, I argue they have merit and to the best of our abilities against a hostile world perception are worthy of our efforts toward preservation.

Best,

Kevin

I agree, again. I'm not suggesting ipo be abolished. But i am saying there is more to evaluation than titles. I watched a retired (due to age) schH judge trial his dog for sch3 to qualify for regionals. The dog would not out, the judge walked up to dog and helper and got the dog to out....sch3 awarded again. After the trial i listened to this guy go postal because the helper was told to use a new sleeve cover, and instead he had a well used one on his sleeve....the problem, according to the ret judge, was that his dog won't out on an old cover. This is behavior from a high brow.
Ipo is good, but like most things, only as good as the integrety of those participating.

Such cheating should be exposed, testified toward, and the perpetrators duly disciplined when found to have merit

And, if nobody present cared enough to follow through, then that is a "problem" as well...

Judges and officers are not sacrosanct and indeed should be held to a much higher standard.

Kevin

Joan,

"Ipo is good, but like most things, only as good as the integrety of those participating."

A great statement that can be applied to all aspects of life. I don't think Kevin would disagree.

P.S. I love Tractor Supply, but, don't live near one. Sucks!

 

I can wholeheartedly agree that Drago is producing well. Both for sport and work.

In my litter of seven with Drago and my female, only one is what I would call a family pet, and this is by the owner's choice, not for lack of ability. Of the others, 3 are/will be particpating in IPO, one in competitive obedience (owner doesn't like biting sports) and of the other two, one is beginning training for bomb detection and the other is presently in his third month of training to be a dual purpose police K-9 (patrol and narcotics). The facility training my boy for K-9 work has been in business for 30+ years. They have told me they have seen intensity and focus and the ability to think from him like they have rarely seen before. They are enthralled with him and have told me they would take two more immediately if I had them. Obviously not all of this comes from Drago only. I also give my female a lot of the credit. One of the nicest compliments I' ve ever heard was, "I can see your dog thinking." All the pups are quick learners. I'm proud of the mother, the puppies, and very happy with the match with Drago.

The entire litter is extremely athletic. This is something I had figured would happen with this litter because their mother is very athletic and very quick, and so is Drago. My female is also on the medium small side. Her competition weight is 58lbs. I think that all of the pups will end up in the 68-85lbs range. They are all great looking dogs, as well.

While I will not say that any of these offspring are perfect, because I don't believe any puppy/dog is, they all have a tremendous work ethic and anything that they may be distracted by while not working immediately goes away once they are given a task to perform. Environmentally, they are all 100% sound. Sounds, surfaces, etc. do not have any affect on them. Some like meeting new people, others do not care. One female had a tougher time with strangers when she was younger. She grew out of it and is very social now. They are still young, not quite 14 months old, but, I see with my own puppy and hear from the owners of the others how they make improvements in ability and mental maturity each and every week. To me, this is what one should hope for.

As for being vocal, yes, some of the pups can get quite vocal at times. With my litter I have not found that to be an issue of nerves. These pups are very high-drive dogs, the mother's side also brings a ton of natural aggression, and the pups like to be a part of everything that you are doing. When they don't get to, or it's feeding time, they vocalize. They are pushy dogs that want to get their way, not some of the time, 100% all of the time. I know it's cliche to say "very high-drive" and "not for everyone." The owner of the police K-9 facility immediately upon seeing the puppy that I kept said, "That dog is not for a first-time handler." I say all of this not to brag, but, so that people who may be looking at offspring understand that some of these pups will be more than you may want to deal with. While all of the pups in my litter are extremely loving and affectionate with their family, not all of them are easy to live with. Mine isn't, but, we work on it together every day.

The last thing that I want to say, as others have. Gary and Pam Hanrahan were extremely great to deal with and very accomodating. Both were very helpful with any questions I had and if they didn't have the answer right then they got it for me very quickly. I have kept in contact with them, mostly Gary, and he is very pleased whenever he receives pictures, videos, or any updates on the puppies.

I hope this is helpful and anyone that has other questions please feel free to PM me. If I don't get back to you right away it's because I am not on here much anymore. Please be patient,  I will respond to you.

Great post OGBS  I hope this post keeps to the top and everyone reads it..

THE FEMALE also adds to what Drago or Bomber bring to the litter.   Many forget that the female has the TIGER BY THE TALE
 

I agree with Joanro and Kevin also..... It is up to us to tell people to come to the PDB and read before you search for a gsd pup...WIll they??who knows but I do tell people I meet to go to our site and read...\ Do research and go in person to see the sire and dams work or just be hands on with any breeder and learn before you buy a german shepherd.

I feel if more people would read this thread before they get upset with a CLUB person yelling at them or telling them , your dog is not for me or us to train here, read here and find the place to search for the right kind of gsd you want...

Every breeder, like OGBS stated has a pup or two in every litter who can be a pet quality and sold to those who do not want to trial but will get a dog worthy of our loyal< STRONG Breed.

I had three very vocal , stubborn females and one male who when they did not get their way to be fed first or work right now, were very vocal..They wanted out right now, or wanted to go  , right now..I like the right now attitude but the vocal drives you crazy if you do not understand their dominance..It WAS NOT WEAK NERVES AT ALL.

 

YR

I know my Drago son has no issue with sounds and pressure. I don't pressure him too much, he's only 12 weeks, so no stick hits or anything like that, but whip cracks, have a plastic jug with change in it that I rattle when he's on a bite (always bites full and hard), can grab him, pick him up in the bite, wrap him up on the bite, and it's just as full and hard as the beginning. Never had an issue with slick floors or the dark. I'm excited to see him in the future mature up and see then what he shows. 

But there are many progeny out there, and many I know personally, who are very strong dogs and solid in nerves as well. I'm not saying all of his progeny are fantastic and have no problems. I'm sure you're right that "SOME" (not most), go for points and don't want to see holes in their dogs or just don't test their dogs like other people do, but what I've seen I don't see a lot of nerve issues. I'm sure we could get some video. I have video of my boy, but he's still very young. 

Some Drago sons.