When did either starving, beating or choking... - Page 2

They are never necessary, for me or my dogs. I do train motivationally, and yes I do train with some compulsion - but "starving, beating or choking" would not be in that category, for me (or my dogs) molly

Sometimes, I withhold celery from the dogs if they arent performing well. But to them, it is like a beating.

I think even Blitz would turn mean if his celery were withheld.

why does everyone take everything to the nth degree. if my dog is getting his food on the track and he doesn't track. he doesn't eat. if he doesn't eat for 2 days, is that starvation? if he doesn't out, and I choke him off, is that choking. if you guys are saying you never withhold food, or choke your dog off a sleeve, your missing out. unfortunalty I think a lot of people see only view pressure as extreme. extreme pressure is just as bad as pure motivation. neither will get you big points at big eventz

Kenan-- I love your posts. They are always honest. Molly-- I agree 100%. What's so sad is that when these barbaric methods are used initially just to train a dog to run up to a man and bark or bite a sleeve in sport, others have to deal with this dog when his career is over and he is no longer wanted. (I have actually seen dogs on some websites with broken ears--probably from pliars being used to force a dog to out.) The subsequent owner, whether it be breeder or good samaritan has to now confront a dog with *real* issues. Some here would say destroy him. Others want to see if it's at all feasible to give this dog a second choice. But here lies the problem--How does the good samaritan get some control so the dog can be handled to get that second chance. It's a vicious cycle.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion/s, but an opinion has to be based on intellect and not stupidity otherwise what you refer to as "your opinions" are just words with no meaning...Beating, starving or abusing any dog is just plain counter productive and perhaps those dogs should never have been bred or kept if they were or are that "hard"... I had a huge "hard" male GSD that was as stubborn as it gets, I never hit him or abused him and at times he would show me his teeth to warm me that he was a jerk...We worked through the problems but I never trusted him with anyone other than myself or my wife.. (he was my wifes dog and they loved/lived for one another)He was not social no matter what we did, his loss not to mention ours as he was a gorgeous boy and had that real GSD look about him...He was a perfect gentleman on our many walks and from time to time needed a correction which I gave with a slight tug on his choke collar...I never considered hurting the dog no matter how big a jerk he was, never...It just never occured to me to treat him or any animal in an abusive manner, if thats the case, why have a dog that size to begin with... Maybe someone should question why some people have a dog like the GSD to begin with...We are supposed to be smarter than the dog but I suppose in some cases I could be wrong... Just like we need to becareful with breeders, breeders need to becareful with potential owners...This whole topic really leaves me wondering about all those dog owners out there and what it is they are doing...I have only seen the good side, never considered that there was a bad side in this day and age, guess that makes me wrong morethan once...??? Just my $0.02 for what its worth... Rob I will not get into a peeing contest with those who insist on being abusive to their dogs and probably their SOs as well as their children...Just like dogs there are some people who should never breed...

Why is it acceptable to treat dogs this way in a civilized society?

Starving, beating, and choking are all subjective. What is starving beating or choking to one, is just a good strong correction or form of motivation to another. A dog that does not eat the night before or even an entire day before tracking will not starve. I do not feed my dogs the day before we track. I had a dog that was hard, stubborn or how ever you want to put it. We started with motivation, that didnt work. Then we used a fur savor, then a prong, then an E collar. And let me just say how frustrating it is to have a dog not even react to the E collar when it is on high. He would just sit there and take it. I do have to say I agree with wscott00 & Keenan. Shawn

Ditto, Rob.

Hi As stated before,the extreme measures stated above. Are Old... Some trainers who have not moved with the times have not adjusted their training methods. And find it easier to stick with "what works". You will still find lots of these style of trainers and even Dog Training Schools that teach trainers these methods. For all of my dogs I treat them with the respect they deserve, if they fail at a certain task, its usually my fault for not teaching it right so the dog understands what I am "asking" them to do..If however they have shown me understanding and are just refusing to perform, you had better believe they will know I am displeased.. Nothing worse to my guys then being put away for the rest of the day.. will dirty looks from me.. However, that being said, if I am training a dog who is aggressive towards me.. that dog will also learn that NO WAY is that acceptable, I prefer using an e-collar for this type of dog. This is usually reserved for those fellas who think they are the boss, not the spooks who are scared of their own shadow. I withhold food, when I am starting to train a dog, the food is dolled out during the day in various training sessions.. They do not starve, they just have to work for it..especially when Im starting them on tracking. I will stop training a dog, if it gets to the point I cannot without force, get it to perform for me, usually its trying to get a dog to do something it has no natural instinct to do.. Some of my Shepherds love to retrieve, others will not ever, pick up anything, even a stick to play with.. for these ones, I chose another field for them to excell at.. After all not all of us are cut out to be Skaters or Tennis Players. When I am no longer enjoying my dog, and it is no longer enjoying training, what is the point? Nothing nicerto see than a dog barking excitedly when it sees the tracking harness.. and nothing more pitiful to see a dog shivering and shaking when it sees the tracking harness That's my opion anyways Barb