GSDCA Qualified Helper List - Page 5

@Bob Mckown, thats the thing, they are not "your assets", they are people who trained and paid out of pocket to do a service in the international sport overseen by the SV under the VDH umbrella.  They should be able to choose how, when and where to offer their services without reprimand, discrimination or blacklisting.  The helpers are "their own asset" regardless of who "put them through school".  The reality is that they should be able to work any trial they choose, regardless of their own individual membership. Its one thing if the helper "personally" doesn't want to cross over, that is obviously their choice, its a whole different issue if there are rules in place dissuading such.

So yes, I am talking about trials, but there is also a "fear factor" of training at the "wrong place" (excluding private sessions of course).

Its sounds like you are against the following concepts:

-They should be able to join and serve, as many clubs, as they see fit, without any hindrances, regardless of whom initially trained them. 

-Likewise, clubs should be able to access the free market and hire whom they choose, to work their events, regardless of club membership. 

-Going forward, it should be a universal, non-club specific process, within the United States.

momo:

           Again Do you belong to a organization? and which one? if you don,t mind. There the "Assets" to the organization they"Choose" to belong to. If your a helper for hire thats great! You have the right to train any where you like with whom you like no one can stop you from that. You can start your own for profit club and charge for your expertise as much as you feel your worth. 

I was in Martial Arts for years I was a certified Judge for the AKA I could teach anywhere i wanted, open a school any where i wanted, but I knew i could not walk into a USKA tournament and judge one of there trials it,s just the way it is. 

Fear Factor? Wrong Place? Your making a mountain out of a mole hill. 

@momosgarage - I really don't get your train of thought on this matter. Our club has 5 helpers ranging levels from Basic - National. IMHO it is not the Organization that develops helpers but the clubs, helpers grow from the grass roots and its up to them how far they will go, what classifications they will earn and based on that individuals desire to hard work and learning, who will ASK them to work trails. Yes the UScA has put together some great programs such as the Helper College, which i believe had over 100 attendees this year at nationals, but really the UScA does not train them. If the GSDCA and its members are butt hurt about the lack of qualified helpers OR having to 'pay for a sleeve' then they need to take responsibility at the club level and begin to strengthen their depth. I can go to ANY club in my area that are not UScA members and work dogs and as far as I am aware, doing so will NOT effect my UScA membership nor violate my classification. But as a UScA club, our club, states that only UScA classified helpers can work our dogs, unless prior approval of the Training Director is given. This is something we as a club put into our bi-laws, I do not believe most clubs have this rule.

At the end of the day, these new GSDCA clubs that will train protection sports will develop their own helpers, the organization will begin to create their own 'training system' and ways of evaluating the helpers and will probably have their own Helper College. momosgarage i know you want just one universal GSD club that everyone in the world, or at least the USA, belongs too, but i think you are a minority in that. I am a proud member of the UScA, I believe in our organizations Mission Statement and i like that not only can i take advantages of the resources UScA has to offer but i can also give back. I do not believe that the UScA is the 'best there is', but they are the right choice for me. Who are you with? What organization are you helping to grow and strengthen?

@Cutaway, thanks for adding details about clubs in your region of the United States.  You are correct, my experience is not universal and seems to be handled much better pending on where somone resides in the United States. 

But as a UScA club, our club, states that only UScA classified helpers can work our dogs, unless prior approval of the Training Director is given.

This is what I was getting at.  Your club has put it in writing, others enforce such through "fraternity", which Bob McKown cites, merely as nothing more than a "mountain out of a mole hill".  Which, I beg to differ...

Also, thanks for acknowledging that I do want, just one, universal FCI focused GSD club that everyone in the USA belongs too (not necessarily world wide, however, just one USA GSD breed club that belongs to the VDH and adheres to FCI) that is separate from the AKC and UKC standards and their existing clubs. 

Almost every week our club needs to explain the hierarchy and relationships of UScA, GSDCA, DVG, FCI, AWDF, SV, VDH, etc, etc, etc, to somebody.  And what's even more frustrating is that other clubs are telling these new folks contradicting and conflicting interpretations of the rules (namely the issuing, transfer and/or acceptance of scorebooks).  The confusion generated by these folks whom are ignorant of the "totality of the rules", not just the GSDCA, DVG or USCA interpretations, is turning people off the venue. Yes, many here will argue this point, but that's what I see happening.  Only the unification of club structures in the United States and the streamlining of rules will get new people into the sport long term and further reduce the number of folks quitting and going strictly AKC or UKC.  Very few established people in this venue are making the rules easy to understand.

I do not believe that what you hope for will ever happen in the USA. First the AKC and the GSDCA will never give up their "version" of the GSD. The American line GSD is far too different from the SV style dog for this to ever happen in America and an organization like UScA will never conform to the American version of the GSD. Second, the GSDCA, AKC, USCA or whoever can NOT become a member of the VDH.

 I don't know what you are refering to in terms of scorebooks but all I know is that USCA abides by the rules for scorebooks as dictated by the WUSV and the FCI.

@Unknown, its doesn't have to be the GSDCA/AKC that decides to adhere to FCI, there are other options where the GSDCA can co-exist with another club with a separate FCI standard, just like the UKC does.  Its not an all or nothing solution that is needed,as you suggest.  To clarify, I was not including the AKC in my vision of a single "universal GSD club", I meant just one unified FCI focused club in the United States. The AKC and UKC can still exist on their islands, while the FCI focused groups can merge into something new and move forward productively.

the GSDCA, AKC, USCA or whoever can NOT become a member of the VDH

Can you explain this further?

Nothing to explain - VDH is the umbrella for German clubs ( DHV, DVG, 156 breed clubs within Germany), not international.

@suzie, thanks, but to clarify my question further, I meant VDH clubs that have international units such as DVG, etc.  So for example, even though DVG USA is a member of the AWDF, they still adhere to the parent clubs policies and rules in Germany and only have one national club in the USA.  There are quite a few with this arrangement, its just the GSD clubs in the United States have more than one affiliated with the SV and the AWDF isn't even official with FCI.  Also what about DHV and AZG?  Plenty of procedural problems that need solving in the good'ole US of A.  Sorry for not being thoroughly clear in my questions.

Momo said "its doesn't have to be the GSDCA/AKC that decides to adhere to FCI, there are other options where the GSDCA can co-exist with another club with a separate FCI standard, just like the UKC does. "

  But the GSDCA "co-existing with another club" is exactly what you say you don't want, you are kind of contradicting yourself here...You have said you want 

 “Also, thanks for acknowledging that I do want, just one, universal FCI focused GSD club that everyone in the USA belongs too (not necessarily world wide, however, just one USA GSD breed club that belongs to the VDH and adheres to FCI) that is separate from the AKC and UKC standards and their existing clubs.”

All I was saying is that what you have stated that you want “one universal GSD club” can not and will not happen. GSDCA will never adhere to FCI standard and USCA will never adhere to GSDCA /AKC standard….I was not saying anything more than that….. 

Also I dont't believe there will be more clubs like DVG America because DVG America is a direct violation of FCI rules and would not be allowed to be started now I believe. FCI rules prevent organizations from issueing intitial Judges lic outside of their own country and prohibits putting on events outside of your own country, DVG America does both.

@unknown, not a contradiction, just a clarification.  I don't want the AKC or UKC to fold up, BUT I also want a single FCI club to represent German Shepherds in the United States, not two.  I believe Dobermans, Boxers and Rottweilers have such an arrangement, why can't GSD have the same thing? But, I could be mistaken with other breed clubs having such. 

Also I dont't believe there will be more clubs like DVG America because DVG America is a direct violation of FCI rules and would not be allowed to be started now I believe. FCI rules prevent organizations from issueing intitial Judges lic outside of their own country and prohibits putting on events outside of your own country, DVG America does both.

Now we are getting somewhere, I did not know this and I doubt many others do either.  Which FCI rules are being violated?  Please cite the section.