A look at conformation & movement of 2014 VAs - Page 14

Love the Music!  me too....chin chin.

this a very insightful thread! I started breeding in the early seventies. my foundation bitch was co-owned with an experienced breeder from the midwest a va1 marko vom cellerland daughter, my stud was linebred on ch bernd vom kallengarten rom v schH111 (2-2.3-4). I  I left the breed for rottweilers when he passed away, cause by then the lanceof franjo type had made the breed over-angulated, and feminized. I got a shep female (in a rush for a protection trained dog) she is half german half cz and correct to the standard with great temperment and training from jinopo. I lucked out. now that she is 10 years old i started looking again and found this very informative site.

I was shocked and disheartened to see what the breed has become after i ignored it for close to thirty years! apparently the sv judges have not read the standard! all the VAdogs imho clearly are roached backed (ferbotten in the standard) now they are also over-angulated as well!) At least they mostly still have good head pieces. now even in the usa its even harder to find a rott with a docked tail, as their standard calls for. what the heck is with breeders and judges that ignore the breed standard???!!!! everything is corrupted n politisized.

I stopped going to dog shows after seeing my friend who showed his owner handled BOB GS pointer at westminster ignorred in a small class in prescott az while the judge put up a sway backed pathetic dog,

I purchased recently a labo son out of the slovakian siegren. I believe his topline is more correct than his dad, and a bit less angulated hind quaters . ( I am a stickler for top-line) i would prefer if he had more substance and size BSZS I was completely unimpressed with Labo's progeny group.

I would appreciate your critique and any input as too what bloodline might click best with Labo that does not carry the longcoat gene he has-

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2062242-jalk-z-lintichu

good find on the video linage. Whatever one thinks of Vegas, his hock does extend and he moves with his feet close to the ground. Kind of shows the foolishness of making judgements from a still photo, though I doubt it deters anyone from doing it.

The video of Vegas borrows footage taken from the SV 's official Siegershow films produced by a German company. How a Portugese kennel is able to take copyrighted material and use it imposing their own copyright is beyond me.I watched the official video when it was first made available and I am working from memory. The part of the video I have a problem with is near the beginning and was meant to be shown in real time. If I remember correctly it was raining off and on. Whoever chose that part of the film show that they do not understand proper movement or they would have chosen the part of the film that shows Vegas moving well. The video made by the Portugese kennel was probably done as a marketing tool to impress their unknowledgeable clients, I can not fathom it being a serious educational film made by those with any knowledge. To make matters worse they slowed the film down and zoomed in making the otherwise clear film out of focus. I had to post because some of you actually think or are trying to persuade the unwitting that that is what SV style breeders are working towards. Anyone with experience handling would be able to see in the original film what was going on. 

   Andy, the Rotweiler breed standard now calls for a tail, there are rules dictating it's carriage and appearance. I hope you don't see a Doberman as they no longer are supposed to have their ears cropped or their tails docked. Someone pleased with the conformation of a Labo son should be tickled pink with the way the SV is steering the breed.

YALK z Lintichu

Above medium size black/tan male GSD of good type, good pigment, & good proportions ( very good height to length ratio, chest depth to front leg is approx 50:50). Good head that seems to have a slightly domed fore head , good proportions & good earset, nice dark mask. A strong neck, nice topline that is slightly steep, good long and high withers, strong back, good loin, croup needs slightly more length and lay could be less steep, good tail and tailset, deep rear angulation, good hocks and tight feet. A nice under line, stands straight on his fore legs, good front angulation, slightly short front upper arm but good shoulder blade lay back. Good pasterns that can be slightly stronger. Allover a very good quality male. Wish you all the best.

Ibrahim

A critique from a picture, in no way, would be as accurate as an on site critique where you can see the dog live and touch it to feel various bone lengths and placement. Also a critique is not 100% precise without watching a dog going and coming and without seeing sidegait. A critique by an amateur might not also be as accurate as that of a professional judge. A person who asks for a critique for his/her dog from a still picture presumably has enough sense to know that.

That said, a still  picture gives a good fair idea of various proportions, lengths and angles, it even gives more time to grasp various details of a dog's body that you can't have watching a dog live. Some parts of a dog can not be judged from a still picture like hocks, also some faults can not be seen from a still picture like loose hocks, joint faults and straightness of fore legs in movement. Spirit of a dog can not be felt from a still picture too, dentition faults can not be detected from a stack and so on.

Here those of us who could not watch the show live meet and share thoughts based on pictures and videos which should give a fair idea about each dog, then each can make his /her own idea about a certain dog or certain trait or trend in the breed.

Such posts also give a chance to the less educated and fortunate to hear comments from breeders, trainers, helpers, experienced owners and maybe impressions from some one who did watch the dogs live in the show ring.

Ibrahim

I'm surprised I can't find a good video of 2X VA1 Larus von Batu. (I want to see his gait so bad since we spoke of his shoulders) These videos are often sent out to as many owners of female GSD as the stud owner can send. Larus was certainly campaigned & used.

Now these 2014 dogs are VAs, I hope we will get nice videos of them as well.

That video of 2X VA1 Vegas du Haut Mansard is a derivative work/fan made, composite,/ mix. The uploader looks to be a very big GSL lover.
Found the Music,Title: Club Des Belugas - Hiphip Chinchin (Smooth Return Mix) 
The VA1 Dingo vom Haus Gero Video must have cost a lot in it's time (1980s), The original was definalely film and shot at more fps, costing even more. I'm guessing some people got to see this on a big silver screen?. Also filmed from a moving platform on wheels or a track.

This is a Fan-Made VA1 Dingo to Enya.

Dingo used himself better than most dogs of any breed. Who have thought looking at his photo that he'd have had that balance, reach and drive. I think we also need to keep in mind that,  just like conformation, correct movement is in the eye of the beholder. I would never consider Vegas a sound, correct mover based on the videos posted here while others here are satisfied that he was.  I am so accustomed to watching ASL's side gait that most of the GSL dogs look labored and uncoordinated to me. Same breed, but so many different type characteristics and don't most of us tend to give a bigger pass to a dog of the lines we like?

I love Ibrahim's last post above. IMO he has nailed it 100%. Movement coming and going is rarely talked about or filmed in this breed; it should be.

IMO most of the movement problems in GSL's are the result of what has happened to their backlines and more angulation behind than in front. For every action, a reaction.  Instead of the more athletic look of a dog like Dingo, we are now faced with a low stationed, clumsy, overdone dog that probably could not tend or herd a flock of 200+ sheep. 24/7.  The main reason for "creating" the GSD as a utilitarian dog is no longer part of the breeding equation on both sides of the pond. It's all about what wins and that's on the judges. If there is ever a movement in Germany to get back to the more athletic dog, there may not be a choice other than to bring in the best of the WL dogs. What an insane idea .

A great post Blitzen, you inspied me to write down some of my personal thoughts about our breed. But I just came back from work, had half lunch half dinner if I might call it so, and I'm too tired to  fine tune what I will write or check the spelling or proper use of words, I might make corrections afterwords. Prepare yourself for quite few confessions and some will look strange to at least some of you.

I come from a culture where a dog is considered a service animal for human, there is no show dog in our heritage. The place of dog is either with sheep or in the surroundings of what he guards. So it is not in our heritage to raise a dog in the house. Nowadays things changed a bit but I want you to have an idea where I come from.

As a child I never cared for dogs, when I was a teenager there was a series on TV, if I remember correctly, named Rin Tin Tin, about a dog whose owner was a police man who got killed, the dog Rin Tin Tin, who was a GSD, light sable that looked like a black/tan, the dog kept searching for the killer till he nailed him. Since then I was in love with the breed, then it was called Alsatian, later I learned correct name was German Shepherd.

So the GSD I knew was black/tan (close to show line) who is loyal to his owner, strong, never afraid, clever, couragous and beautiful looking. I lived all my life knowing and loving that GSD.

When I was first introduced to the work line, I hated its colors and looks and thought "how disgusting" and what stupid owners who pay for non pure ugly looking so falsely called German Shepherds when they are not.

to be continued

My first pure bred GSD was in 1982, a retired police dog that was (now I know) a show line (then I did not know there was a work one), a very beautiful one, just like Rin Tin Tin, strong, courageous, a guardian dog. He stayed with me till 1986. And then I could not own a GSD till year 2001 and when I did it was ofcourse a showline, but to my surprise he wasn't strong. not courageous and does not guard, it was then that I started learning more about history of breed, types, bloodlines etc.

So here I had part of my beloved GSD, the beauty and I wanted to have the other part, the strength, I bought a work line. I loved the show for its beauty and loved the work for its servisability and strength. And till today I would love to own a show that has a heart of a work line. What was done to splitting the breed in my opinion is a crime towards the breed, the breed should have remaine one beautiful strong dog.I find my self split between the two types, none of them is the dog I always loved and wanted to own.

The showline

I confess I wasn't really aware what was being done to the breed till I joined the PDB. I did not know dog locomotion and structure, I read and learned as much I could, seeked help of friends, asked many questions, watched many videos, and kept touching and feeling bones of my own dogs, run and gait them, then all pieces started getting together nicely. Now I understand structure of GSD to a good extent, but I confess I liked the arched topline and thought it was beautiful, but discussions here and knowing it is not what standard calls for, and blitzen never ending criticism of roached backs, convinced me it is really wrong, then slowly I found myself loving straighter backs and now I can say I hate badly roached backs.

To be continued