Difference between Working and Show Lines - Page 9

Echo, Blending rarely works, as you usually end up with a so-so looking dog who can't work very well. People trial & show under judges that place the same emphasis on the same things they do. There is nothing wrong with this, it is just human nature, judging is subjective, after all.

Sue you are of course 100% correct !!! Subjective/Opinion/Feeling Even a dogs "mood" can effect a performance in a Judge's eyes on a given day.

There's really no question once you've handled a good working line. There's just so much you can't explain with words on the internet.

Silbersee: I bow to your wisdom, inside knowledge and up close and personal experience. I do not wish to continue this work/show thingy too much longer, as it gets brought up every few days or so, however, I do find it "strange" that H. Raiser making outlandish statements is looked upon by some as "just done to invoke thought about where are breed is going", but when someone who is not a former "Bundeszuchtwart" (Federal Breed Warden) makes a less outlandish statement (such as crossing working and showlines), they are dismissed as idiots. Is the difference status, credibility or position? I would submit that apparently he lost all of that if he had it in the first place, according to what you described happened about him being "ousted". The real question that all of these threads point to is: SHOULD there be two lines?

Echo, a dog that has a SchH3 after it's name doesn't necessarily mean that dog actually earned that title. Titles are bought and paid for all the time. How sad is that? Trials are held in someone's backyard and titles are given to dogs who don't deserve them, it happens. KKLs are given to dogs who are handed sleeves, who barely can get through the "test" (and I use that term loosely). Often dogs get a SchH3 and you never see them on a field again. You look at the scorebook and you see they got their titles in short order, maybe from the same judge on the same field. Hmmmmmm, wonder if it was the same helper each time? You don't see too many showline dog scorebooks with a lot of SchH3 trials marked in it. Those are few and far between, but I bet a lot of those dogs have more conformation cards than we can carry in one hand.

DeesWolf, I know I have heard this many times what you describe. DoRight, Exactly the question I have always asked :-)

Why not having 2 separate lines? Just respect these as 2 separate breeds, after all, don’t we accept that there are hounds and retrievers, each serve its own purpose but to a layman like me, they are all dogs for hunters. I guessed blending the 2 and have a single line that conforms like a top showline and has the nerves of the working line would be ideal. I have to confess that I did not do enough research to say the following, but my gut feel tells me that somewhere along the breeding, those who prefer a stronger working trait chose to forego certain conformation, and vice versa, that leads to today's 2 separate lines. Blending the 2 would inadvertently leads to certain compromises initially but over a long time (probably a very long time of 10 to 20 generations) would probably end up with above average dogs that works and shows well. But still, I think it would still be a compromise rather than being best at both, that's why there are sprinters and marathon runners, they serve slight different purposes, although in essence, both run. However, I do feel having an American showline and a German showline sounds silly to me. My 2 cents...

DeesWolf, I have to admit that I get a bit fed up with statements like yours. You say that titles are bought all the time and that trials are held in someone's backyard, blablabla. These are strong statements made on a public board. As I have said so in the past: Please back them up with cold hard facts and proof. If you can do that, please report it to the proper organization, so that disciplinary action can be taken against these judges and other individuals/officials. IMO, anybody who has proof that such fraud was committed is morally obligated to make sure that it does not happen again. I can assure you that such trials do not take place in Germany, as the SV gets down hard and fast on judges who would sanctioned that (has been done in the past). If what you are saying is just hearsay, when I would strongly advise that you don't repeat such rumors, as somebody could hold you liable for that. Do Right: Yes, Dr. Raiser is a very controversial person, to say the least. We are all anxiously awaiting his word on what to do with the new organization. In December, he has advised his followers not to quit membership in the good old SV as of yet. For more information, the following German website might be of interest: www.zuechtergemeinschaft.de . Dr. Raiser is inviting to an informational evening on Good Friday (4-6-07) where he wants to inform anybody interested about the state of a possible new organization and "one of Germany's cultural treasures (deutsches Kulturgut)" (this is the expression used lately to describe our breed).

What does deutsches Kulturgut translate out to in english. please? You are correct. That is a German web site. I can not red German. I did learn something from that site though. "Brainstorming" is the same word in english and in german :)

Some of the least knowledgeable people pipe up whenever this conversation starts. The same ones, that when you asked them if they've ever gotten a title in the ring or on the field, start some convoluted line of BS. I too would like names of dogs and judges from anyone that alledges cheating.