Ibrahim...check this out - Page 3

It´s a different world - but both camps are talking about a breed called "German Shepherd dog", and at that point there is my personal problem.
Even if we forget about the difference in conformation, I can´t ignore the difference in temperament.

Susie, I've owned both and I honestly have not seen any difference whatsoever in their everyday temperaments. They both seem to learn at the same level and mine have been able to earn both American and German titles as have their parents, grandparents and g-grandparents. That includes Sch and IPO titles as well as AKC performance. I can see a big difference in their conformation, but just don't see anything different about their temperaments, maybe because none are or have been 100% ASL.

I agree with Susie 100% the Am.Bred dogs had no temperament,and i doubt it if one out of 10 can do the job for which the breed was bred for.Please tell me anyone if is any goal in breeding dogs expecially hearding or working breed if they can't do the job.I would suggest those American breeders who are breeding those animals should rather breed pekingise or some other toy breed.I have seen many other toy,hunting breeds which dogs had better sounded temperament than those german shepherds i saw yesterday at the Westminster.Yes they all are cow hocked,they can run only 200 feet,they would never pass AD.I am saying this from my own experience,i had ABD back in a day in 80s only for couple of years and i just could not deal with the temperament and physical deficiences.I suggest the American breeders should come to the SV shows and see the real German Shepherds,because i don't think is going to be other way around,is just nothing to learn nor admire from the American bred dogs,it's a totally difference ball game.

And how would you describe the GSLs? Never seen any of them with cowhocks or weak temperaments? Need to see a video of a recent show I attended?  

BTW my AKC CH has her BH and her AD. Her sire is an AKC CH with a KKL1 and a Sch 3. They are both titled in AKC performance venues too. 

C'mon guys let's not turn another thread into A v B, please?

IMO It's not about one vs the other and which dog is the best . It's about recognizing the pros and cons of both and trying to understand that neither is without faults. That seems to be a hard concept for both sides to talk about.

I am used to and own WG showline, I did not see that those dogs were different in rear angulation from WG show lines. And Susie what did you see during the show in those dog's attitude/behavior that suggested less appropriate temperament?

I saw approachable dogs, who stood their ground perfectly well and accepted being touched and felt. All were well trained for stack and trot.

Trot style, reach etc etc aside

Just don't want this thread to turn into the usual downhill slide hence my comment. I hope the subject can be discussed the way Blitzen sees it.

Ibrahim, even a perfectly trained dog is able to show dominance, temperament, and love of life.

They behave and show themselves different - I don´t know how much is nature and how much is nurture, but this is not the behavior of the breed as I know it.
I saw it in obedience videos earlier on and I saw it now.
It´s the temperament. Difficult to explain, but they lack the spirit I love in this breed.