What would you do? - Page 4

NO WAY would I have kept that pup! He wanted back inside: to me that indicates lack of confidence. Also, any pup that wants nothing to do with the handler, even after lots of hand-feeding and attention is going to be very hard to train.

Compare that with your Eska: she was scared to death by all the noises she'd experienced during 18 hours in her crate, and would not come out in the warehouse when I went to pick her up. I drove to a quiet spot, and eventually got her out of the crate with lots of coaxing. She began to sniff around the grass/snow, and within 2 minutes, was wanting to play with the leash!

Now, THAT'S confidence!

lol lots of coaxing to come out of the crate is confidence? man i've now heard it all.....

Older puppy, what 5 months at the time? 18 hours of flying and she was playing in 2 minutes. I've worked with plenty of Mil working dogs that did the same thing being imported and took them much longer than 2 minutes to come around. The important part of what SS said is the recovery time. 2 minutes from inside crate scared to playing with handler. Dogs are allowed to be afraid of something. That is only natural. The time it takes them to recover from said scary situation is what is important to me. A dog that recovers quickly is imo much more confident then a dog who sees said scary situation in the future and freaks out or is traumatized and tears apart crates now because it associates crates with scary big planes.

Melba;  you have enough experience to know exactly what you want in a working dog;  and also a dog that will work into your family/home.  Pride  yourself in that and wait for your lucky puppy to come along.  BOL  Nan

For me the sadness in rehoming the girl I was talking about is that I know she was my last puppy.  Nan

I think Melba's thread has accomplished what she wanted so I hope no one minds the derail...

SS, I would take very different information from your description. That much fear/apprehension/nervousness that the dog wouldn't even leave a crate, then dealt with the new outside stimulus by tugging is a dog I would watch very closely for holes in nerve base. The tugging sounds far more like avoidance behavior, ie, cover weak nerves with over the top prey drive, than it does confidence. A confident dog confidently explores a new environment. It does not cower in a crate until taken to a quiet place to come out and then focus on tugging on a leash. Many many dogs with less than stellar nerves go to their "happy place" on a sleeve later in life when they feel pressure; it's not just high drive, it's higher drive than the nerves are strong. 

Sunsilver,

I am so sorry but your post made mu chuckle. When I imported one of my puppies, I opened the crate after 23 hours flight and he bolter, bit my friend in the leg, she screamed, kicked him as a reflex, he bit harder and I had to take him off. He was the only one I imported who was this bold. Still one of the best I ever owned.

Bottom line, puppy was returned, money refunded..

If you are curious what I would have done? No idea, I would have to meet the puppy to asses her and make my decision. Good luck with you next puppy.

Martina
 

Jenni, I respectfully disagree. Melba had worked Eska with the flirt pole a lot, so, so she automatically went for anything that dangled: laces, leashes, towels, etc. Once she was out of the crate, what I saw was pretty normal doggy behaviour: sniffing around and checking out the place, then wanting to play. She was more interested in playing than pottying!

She's not afraid of noises, BUT I have yet to take her to a place that was as noisy as an airport tarmack with jet engines warming up. In the warehouse, it was the noise of the electric forklift that spooked her and made her unwilling to come out of the crate. She's fine with busy parking lots, though, and I've seen no fear issues since that day. Maybe when the frikkin' weather warms up and we can do more extensive socialization, I'll find she had an Achillies heel, but if so, I haven't found it yet! Not even with the very noisy construction equipment that's been working in front of my house the last few days, and making the whole house vibrate!

She was 4 months at the time, not 5.

Disagree all you want.   I'm all for a friendly debate. That would be a dog I'd watch extra carefully for holes in temperament. So she had prior experience with that (tugging) as a good, SAFE activity, ie, not threatening and unfamiliar like the new place. This is how people get weak dogs to pass trials all the time- familiarity and high drive!  That doesn't change anything for me in terms of seeing it as avoidance and seeking familiarity when you're afraid. I have never had to drive an import OR pup anywhere else to get them out of a crate, and I have bought dogs I didn't keep because I didn't like their nerves. I think that's extreme. If the dog was in a crate 18 hours and wasn't banging on the door to get the heck out, that's a dog I'm going to look at very critically before I decide whether its genes are getting passed on or not. 

I don't know who the dog is or how many owners it's had (you mention Melba also) so of course environment can play a role, but I didn't say put her down. I said I'd watch her for holes in temperment/nerves. Confident dogs and pups want to get the heck out of that crate. Even if they take a few seconds to walk out, they should not need excessive coaxing with no threat present and they should definitely not need to be driven elsewhere to accomplish the task. 

Melba BRED Eska, Jenni!  And I don't know where the heck you got the idea I (or someone else in this thread) would think of putting her down!    [scratches head...]

How would I know who bred her? It's not relevant, either. I'm not trying to bash anyone! Just making an observation. 

You're missing my point & intention, SS. You're getting all worked up defending her, so I was making the point to relax- which is why I said "I didn't say put her down", I just said watch her for temperamental holes.  I'd be pretty upset to have that experience at the airport, to be honest. 

I admit I'm hard on dogs. I look at all of them from a "would I breed this dog?" standpoint and I take note of behaviors I consider potentially sketchy. I don't let drive stand instead of confidence and good nerves, and in a lot of applications, drive is substituted and I think we're seeing the results in a widespread manner.

I digress....enjoy your dog. I wasn't intending to upset you. You gave an example of "confidence" that really struck me differently. I am not alone, apparently...Martina has had much more similar experience to me, it seems. I'm sorry I said anything.