Best age to seperate - Page 4

Because puppies Ibrahim cannot think like you as a human can. We let them win all the time, building confidence and that confidence turns into sureness because the dog has always won, in every encounter while a young puppy and later as an adult. Of course the dog will at some point not win, but, thats where I come in and the reason this is called a K9 UNIT, not just K9. You know Ibrahim, the reason most people search and cannot find a good helper is? Because you need to accept and understand that your job as a helper IS to lose...making losing more and more difficult as time goes on and the dog matures and shows you what you want to see, but, in the end Ibrahim, you WILL lose. Sure, there are times when my dog wont find the bad guy or the hidden odor, but, that is when I will hide someone or an odor and have my dog search again, for a minute, and find it and enjoy a good bite on a sleeve/suit or a game of playing ball. The point here my friend is my dog wont ever lose.

LOL. Joanro. I have seen the dog I mentioned deal with that a number of times - he looked very puzzled. Tried to lie down so the little rascal/s couldn't get at him.

I think dogs have provided me with more laughs over the years than any human I've ever known. Watching a 90 lb macho Sch 3 male getting "handled" by a 7, 8 week old puppy is one of the best laughs I've ever had. 

Jenn- my dogs are raised with my other dogs, with the exception of Duke. He is an arrogant,cocky SOB. But, u like many breeders, my dogs live with me, not for me.

   My puppies are born in their own whelping room, with their mother only. I have a half door, that remains closed. I NEVER lock a dog in with their puppies. (My son had an ulcer when he was very little and I can remember going outside and sitting on the steps to get away, while still able to hear).

   While the other dogs are all interested in whats going on, the mother dog chooses who can come see them. Usually by two weeks old, the mother is letting visitors in. When the puppies are three weeks, and they usually are started on food, and are starting to venture out of their room, into the rest of the house. They come out when they are ready.

    My pups are then given their choice where they want to sleep, either in their room, or at the foot of my couch, with carpets and blankets. My puppies don t get 'put up' until i have the time for them. They are here because I wanted them here, and they deserve all my time.

   And you better believe its alot of work. I don t wznt my pups ever sitting on shit newspaper...EVER...THAT...makes my blood boil.

When the puppies can get up and down the back steps on their own, my back door gets left open. I have about 4 acres fenced in, most of it chain link and 6 foot fence. It is divided, when i leave,  big dogs get seperated, when I am here, they are togeather.

   My dogs DO live in a pack. Yeah, i have a few squabbles here and there, but most of them get along great.

My dogs know, i am the boss. As joan said, most male dogs don't like it when pups go looking to nurse on them...lol

   As far as a dog killing another bitches pups, i ve heard of it, but my dogs all love the puppies, if i have more than one litter, they will nurse and care for each others puppies.

   So much is learned through their co existing. They get bold and very much tuned in to their desired behavior.

  Mine are out in the horse pasture, hunting in the woods, and just having fun, being puppies.

People tell me all the time, "you know how much eadier it would be ON YOU, if you put them in a kennel".. the day i do it the easy way, is the day i need to stop breeding dogs.

Neither dog is the mother or father, one is a male...

On 'the best age to take on a puppy', I was aware of the thinking behind the

article Koots linked;  and also of the arguments put forward over many years,

that the best time to take charge of the new pup is 8, or 7.5 weeks.

Now I know this is purely one-off annecdotal, but people may find it interesting:

where I used to work, we got a puppy  (plus another, unrelated one) for my

employer to run on and then send to a friend overseas.  The pup was 7.5 weeks;

(the other one was 12 weeks, he'd been slow to sell.  Came from an established

GSD breeder;  was 'still at home' with mum & one litter sister she was keeping.

They had half a dozen others on the premises but I did not see what sort of

contact the litter was allowed with their older relatives.)    This first & younger

puppy was the product of a BYB first-ever litter, raised with mum but no other

dogs in social housing.    The first or second to be sold of that litter and leave

home.   Both boys were solid in temperament, not spooked by anything much,

if they were a bit unnerved by machinery etc their recovery time was quick and

decisive;  they got on very well with each other and with  any adults we judged

responsible enough to play nicely with the two.  But in light of my experience

with GSDs of all ages down the years, I didn't find anything that 'special' about

the temperament of either.

Fast forward a couple of weeks and the BYBer  got  in touch to say she had had

second thoughts about the people one of the brothers had been homed with - and

anyway they hadn't come up with their money - so she was taking him back;  did

we want him ?  So we asked the boss, and bought him, and collected him by which time

he was 13 weeks.  This one was not destined for the friend abroad, he was to stay on

our turf.  So he'd had exactly the same upbringing as his brother, purchased earlier -

mum and eight siblings -  plus a few days with a not-very-suitable new owners' family,

then back to mum and his last sister and brother for almost another week.  Then us.

 

I have lauded this black dog's praises before on PDB.  He was, and as far as I know still

is, an absolute cracker.  Physically he wouldn't win Shows today as he looks a ringer for

the 1906/7 German Seiger, so is "old fashioned" structurally, without actually having anything

'wrong' with him conformation wise.  But the real joy is in his temperament.  He is quite the

nicest, quickest, most 'discriminating' GSD.  An excellent all-rounder.  Good Security Dog but

also a real character, and very very good around all sorts and ages of other dogs.

 

Exactly how much this had to do with him being purchased at a later age than his brother,

how much he's influenced by the early dodgy experience, how far it depended on the fall-out

of his genetic make-up  (personally I wouldn't have used their sire,  but maybe my prejudices

about breeding FOR pets/money would have meant I missed a trick there ? lol), or any other

factor I  just  do  not  know ... but I found the  dog fascinating.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

THIS IS AN EMAIL I JUST GOT ABOUT ONE OF MY LAST PUPPIES....AND I LOVE IT

this is why i raise my puppies the way i do,, in my house, under foot. I send them out ready to take on what life brings them. I have a waiting list for puppies, at all times, and not only from pet people, although no shame admitting that is the majority, and that is my choice.

   I have an open invitation by NYS Police to send them whoever I think will be a good candidate for them.

    I want my dogs to be loved and cared for, not left in kennels or crates waiting for someone to have the time for them.

Laci is getting so big! She had a vet appt. yesterday and the entire staff couldn't stop raving about how beautiful she is..they were arguing over who was going to be the one to give her the shots lol. She has quite the personality, and definitely knows how to make me laugh. She's very brave and bold, which I LOVE. She's my shadow and my best bud. I can't thank you enough for giving me the best pup I could have ever dreamed of!! You've done a wonderful job with your babies!!

Lauren 

 

Ps Ibrahim, I see nothing to be gained by puppies spending time with their sires, but to have them spend time with other adult dogs behaving the way you like goes along way.

   When someone pulls up in the driveway, or knocks at the door, that behavior is definitely instilled in young puppies.

   And even though my dogs have the company of each other, every one of them prefer my company and will stop dead in their tracks on a recall. Puppies included. They come running when called, and its not for a food reward, its for my attention.

   I myself like to get a pup at 6 weeks, or sooner. As HD said, the early days in a dogs life has a very big impact on them. Since most my pups be spoken for before birth, many new owners come and spend time with their pups starting 4 weeks. This also helps me encourage their development for the life they are going to

    I so enjoy sharing my time, my life, my home with my dogs. I do it, because I love it...them

I love Kitkat´s kind of raising pups - but this kind of raising is not the norm - and a lot of breeders and dogs wouldn´t be able to do so...

For me it´s okay if the pups stay with the dam for 7 or 8 weeks. Most breeders over here do give the dam the opportunity to go away from her pups ( for example a fence the pups are not able to overcome, but it´s always her choice, not the breeders choice ). I like to get my pup as soon as possible ( over here almost 8 weeks by law ), I am not really interested in too much socialisation at that point ( any dogs besides the dam, strange surroundings...) but I´m interested in puppies having the chance to play outside in the yard, potty outside, smell, and listen to different noises outside, meeting strangers ( potential puppy buyers and/or family ) for the first 7/8 weeks of their life.

A good puppy will be fine / a bad one will not be mine

Ibrahim, the post HD made about "building confidence" is the best advice you will ever get. That´s because we "train" our dogs - it´s all about confidence and the "team".

The helper problem mentioned by HD might not be your main problem right now, but over here it´s more than important - a helper imbruing in his own importance is the worst helper you are able to choose, it´s all about the dog, and the learning process " I´m inconvincible ".

Later on you start to teach the dog how to bear frustration, and you start teaching the dog how to find a way out of frustration, always resulting in effort. That´s training working dogs...

For every dog there is a breaking point, but the further away, the better... ( and at this point not only training is important, but a lot of genetic characteristics, too ). That´s the main reason why people who need "serious" working dogs not only believe in prey drive, but believe in hardness and aggression, too. It´s always better to back up twice ( or more )...

 

Any male dog or female dog that severely harms or kills immature puppies does not need to be used for breeding.  Such a dog is mentally unbalanced.  My male dogs ...  even the toughest and most aggressive know instintively not to hurt puppies either of their own blood or their kin.  Dogs raised without kinship and bonding with other dogs are most prone to pychological weaknesses and mental defect.  It is a better test of a dogs mental strenth and intelligence if they will harm the young of humans or other immature dogs than if they can bite a jute sleeve.  Those male dogs police, IPO, or any other sport that will harm children or puppies are unfit for breeding.  Possibly in some cases they have been trained by idiots to do the wrong thing or they are just unfit dogs mentally.  Recently there was a report of a police K9 (Mal) that attacked and viciously bit the 3-5 year old son of the k9 officer in the K9 officer's own back yard.  The boy lost a limb.  In another case a police K9 escaped his cruiser cage and viciously attacked an immature human 12 years old viciously and without command from his K9 handler.  This is also a troubling example of dogs being bred for aggression but that do not have intelligence that a GSD or other dog breed should have.  A big part of the problem of dogs behaving in vicious manners goes back to the dogs as puppies not being properly socialized with other dogs.  There are a lot of things that dogs must learn from other dogs and one of them is that puppies and young dogs are not to be harmed.  Just as in humans the puppy learns from the adults what is acceptable behavior and if they are separated from other dogs at 8 weeks that lesson is likely never taught.  The mother dog and to a lesser degree the sire are both important to the development of the puppy's intelligence and mental strength.  Puppies born from a mentally strong and confident mother tend to be likewise mentally strong and confident.  This is in part genetic and in part environment and the mother and father play a huge role in the environment of the growing puppy.  This is very similar to what happens in humans as relates to care and social standing within their social group be it human or canine.  Mother dogs and male dogs correct puppies for bad behavior and unacceptable acts just like humans and other animals correct mistakes by their young.  Puppies need their mother and father just as humans do .. and the longer the time the puppy can have a canine family experience the better.

   while my boy Duke is an arrogant SOB...he would NEVER hurt one of the puppies...he threatens...but has never bit a puppy, now another male dog he does have issue with.but that is only when dogs are in heat.