Definition of pet vs. working - Page 4

HD, if I understand your use of your dog, you are somewhat unique to this forum in that you must have a dog that fulfills your needs in a protection venue? Your dog does a real job every day so there would be no need to ask you to prove he or she would be breed worthy. My question is how do others here who do not  use their dogs as you do or prove them in some way determine that their dogs are real working dogs and worthy of being bred. Is it enough to just say it? Based on pedigree?

I honestly don't think many serious breeders set out to breed a litter of "pets"; most have specific goals in mind when they pull the trigger..

I did not read into susie's post that breed tests = breed worthy. Just that was her starting point for finding dogs that meet her criteria.

It does not really take many  trips around the block to find there is much more to finding the right GSD for ones purpose than "breed test". For me it has proven to be a pretty good jumping off point though.

What I will never understand is why the owners of GSDs who do not title their dogs [ SV mandates] look at the people who title,  like we are the enemy. The opposite is much closer to the truth. The opposite to the people who work in sport would be the people who do nothing with their breed stock. I do not see the profit from knocking sport dogs for those of you who have decided not to participate. I hear all of the time about this titled dog who could not do this or that. I have seen the same thing many times from ''trainers'' who train but do not compete. The people of knowledge in this chat room who don't title, please live and let live. You give strength to the the mass breeders

I honestly don't think many serious breeders set out to breed a litter of "pets"; most have specific goals in mind when they pull the trigger..
^^^ some breeders are 'serious' about making money, so the largest 'market' is the 'pet' market. Therefore, breeders serious about making money breed FOR the pet market...meaning quality is not a consideration. I am not saying that Quality gsd should not be pets.

Blitzen, I can tell you that my dog, regardless of his occupation, is NOT breed worthy. Like I said earlier, I dont believe titles prove a dog of being worthy of passing its genes. I have seen too many titled dogs I would not feed and I owned a couple that I am still amazed they were actually titled.

I also dont think a pedigree is an indication of THIS dog's ability to breed and produce itself. Look, like I said, by all means, test and test hard, pressure, expose weakness and strenghts and if what you actually SEE in front of you is worthy of breeding, try it, see what its produced and go from there.

Of course in today's society where the word "cull" is so not PC, it makes things more difficult, but, I have known and have relatives in Europe who breed their own herding or guard dogs, cull what they dont think will make it and keep what they think will. Blitzen, I deeply believe that most "serious" breeders breed for pets, regardless of breed, because, face it, thats where the money is. I dont think I have ever seen nor heard of a litter of say 8 puppies and all 8 turn out to be "demon" work dogs, a couple may, regardless of who or what bred them, but, the rest will be sold as pets who of course wont make it very far because their drives, even though not good enough for work, are not ideal as a couch ornament either, so...I am just glad I am not a breeder.

gsdstudent, live and let live does not now nor will it ever mean "silence" when have been around as long as some of us have. I do want to ask you a couple of questions though that you may be able to help me with...how much does your local IPO club charge, yearly and per session, how many times a week do you train?

" I did not read into susie's post that breed tests = breed worthy. Just that was her starting point for finding dogs that meet her criteria."

You have to start your research somewhere - I tend to start my research at the clubs, handling and watching the dogs and their relatives. A dog that is not able to be titled isn´t worth a second thought, and a dog not able to get a show rating, isn´t either. And at least over here, where you are able to join a club without driving half a day, there is no excuse for no title. Out of my experience the people ridiculing IPO are not able to title the dog they own ( temperament, nerves ).

I´m glad that at least in my country people like this don´t get pedigrees in case they "breed" their untitled dogs...

BUT, how do GSD breeders decide which of their own dogs are breed worthy if they aren't tilting them or proving them in some way? Personally I don't think that titling is all there is either.

No way do I believe that pets only come from specific breeders and pedigrees. I must know different breeders because the ones I associate with absolutely do not breed for money. They rarely sell their pups at 8, 10 weeks. They keep them and grow them out. They keep the ones they like the best.  The older pups they do sell are housebroken and ready to trial for at least a BH.  It takes a lot of work to raise a litter that way so they only breed 1 or at the most 2 litters a year. Even after all of this, they still get a few pups that are not up to snuff so to speak and they end up in non-breeding homes.

 

If one sets the bar to the level where one only uses for breeding dogs that CAN be titled and show rated, that pretty much narrows the field, doesn't it?

In that case I would only trust a breeder I know personally ( and the dogs ), and who trained successfully a couple of his own dogs in the past.
People, including breeders, tend to "believe" too much...