Point Dogs - Page 2

it is simple, to win points/competition the ideal dog has different qualities than when you want a street dog,

for people who say its all in the training, the nice malinois who faced the whitehouse fence jumper was trained on a sleeve and suit, but never on a guy in his underwear so he ran

I love Witz....talked to his owner extensively at WUSV. Jaro assured me he could do street work. Point dogs today really need excessive prey and skilled handling to meet speed and precision needed for points. Point dogs can have good fight drive to go with this prey, but do not have to have the fight, as long as the grips are full and the speed and precision is there. I would not work a dog on the streets without strong fight drive, regardless of ratio of prey to defense drive the dog has. Moderate to low prey dogs have a very difficult time being point dogs today....too much emphasis on speed and stylist, but these dogs can still be excellent street dogs if they have good fight and health. 

Some good points but it doesnt change the fact that a there are no absolutes.  I can post many vids of high prey Mals with plenty of fight and nerve for any type of op.

People like to say stupid crap like its gospel.

Many top IPO dogs are good for any street.

Many street dogs could do well in IPO.

Many of both cannot do either.

Many prey dogs have insufficient nerve or fight for any real work.

Many "real" dogs are defensive shitters that will run if the right buttons are pushed.

Many sport dogs are great producers and have produced many "real" dogs.

Many are crap producers.

People want to put seperate everything into little boxes and act as if nothing changes from individual to individual.  High prey doesn equal bad for street work.  Niether does high aggression / fight = bad for sport.

And Duke you could sell that Mal that got run by the whitehouse jumper to many PDs here in North America and he probably would not be the worst dog in the dept.  Not saying its right and not saying that all PDs here don't know what the real deal is.  Just sayin is all..;).

Haz there are allways exeptions, but generally speaking it is true that you need diferent type of dog for different kind of job, simple as that

Yep, there are Mals with little or no prey drive, and GSL that are top sport dogs, and DDR dogs with over the top prey drive.....yepper, all of these things are out there!

Look, if I were interested in getting to the podium at the BSP, I would carefully select a dog with the right GENETICS and the drives and temperament that would get me to that podium, end of. If I were interested in working a dog on the street, I would carefully select a dog with the proper GENETIC temperament and drives to make sure I went home alive every morning. Sports and the real world are vastly different...its incredibly hard to get killed in a big, green open field while you are competing. Its very easy to get killed on the street while having the wrong dog working with you. Choose the proper "tool" for the job on hand and dont worry if your street dog can be a top competitor at the BSP or your BSP competitor can be a good street dog...that is more often than not, NOT the case, for a reason...

Lets be clear! more than 75 percent of the street dogs in the US are washed out dogs from IPO/Ring/Mondio/KNPV (all sports) from Europe.

i would not invest in half of them time to train for high level competition 

i hear a lot of breeders on the internet that breed such versatile dogs that you can blindly pick a puppy out of the whelping box and equally raise it to be pet, LEO, MWD, SAR, therapy dog......i guess some of you guys have just chosen the wrong lines.

ok i admit, altho these same breeders have 1000's of still pics and 1000's of posts on the internet they have not got around to videos or competing their dogs yet, but they could if they wanted to.... just ask them.

lol vk, you pretty much nailed it.

good discussion; I have seen many dogs in LE from a sport background. I have seen top LE dogs to weak LE on the street. If my butt was on the line I would like a dog with the fighting drive of Rocky balboa, Rambo, and the terminator combined. too often we hear of our Police being out gunned by criminals. The LE dog is another tool in the box. Did you see todays news?  2 more dead policemen today. God bless these public servants!