Point Dogs - Page 3

"i hear a lot of breeders on the internet that breed such versatile dogs that you can blindly pick a puppy out of the whelping box and equally raise it to be pet, LEO, MWD, SAR, therapy dog......i guess some of you guys have just chosen the wrong lines.

ok i admit, altho these same breeders have 1000's of still pics and 1000's of posts on the internet they have not got around to videos or competing their dogs yet, but they could if they wanted to.... just ask them."

You forgot to mention the bragging they do on their above success covers Thousands of puppies in Thousands of litters. And that they have "risen" [sic] Thousands of pups that they personally trained all those thousands to become certified cop dogs.

Wich people here have experience as a LE and K9 handler on the streets and know the stress in real

dangerous situations?

 

Just an obeservation many many breeders sell dogs as LE  potential and most of this breeders have never worked on the 

street but only train in sport so what do they know?????

Ask example sport people work in real defense  with  extreme pressure ..............most of them don,t know

how to work.  same  detection and tracking most of them  have never been on the real field.

I work a patrol/bomb detection dog Black Malinois, I am NOT and NEVER have been a breeder nor do I ever aspire to be one.

 

Thanks for info  H-D

 

 

There is a lot of smoke here but very little fire .. a lot of BS from the usual BS sellers about so called bad ass LE dogs or Police K9's.  The point dogs that the OP started with here are some of the insane drive dogs that sometimes do well in high level competitions in sport or some can do Police or LE work .. some but not all.  Super high drive ( some are insane ) dogs are great for a very limited number of jobs but are not the cream of the breed or the best dogs to breed to.  The Navy Seals use primarily Mals and from reports and TV they said that in their training that they had to adjust to dogs that would follow a ball out of a 10th story window or off of a roof top.  Even these trainers have to admit that some dogs will harm themselves if the handler asks them to do the impossible.  Perhaps this is seen as a good thing from a military perspective in which soldiers and dogs are assets to be used, won, or lost.  Some insane drive dogs will do what you ask of them even if it is wrong .. so the handler has to protect the dog from itself.  The idea that police dogs are there to protect their handler is also a hoot.  People who breed and train police dogs know that a lot of these dogs are killed and seriously hurt because their handler puts them in harms way needlessly or through a momentary lapse under pressure not from the dog but from the K9 handler.  The dogs do what they are trained to do but as we often see it is the humans who fail to live up to expectations. Will a trained GSD protect his human K9 officer .. yes .. but so will my GSD and they are not points dogs or LE dogs so trained.  In most cases it is the human that must use training ( both for the human and the dog ) to protect and use the dog only when necessary and in a way not to harm humans or the dog.  When the dog must bite a human or other animal to protect his owner or handler then the human must be right there to end the attack asap or the dog or human will get hurt needlessly.  A knowledgeable man or woman with a jute sleeve and a gun or piece of pipe can kill or injure most if not all IPO dogs walking around today without human intervention.  The Czech border patrol was forced to change their training because so many of their dogs were getting killed by knowledgeable people using this very technique and a bark and hold in a stationary position was likewise abandoned as a dog barking close by a man with a gun is just good target practice.  The dog is at best a defensive weapon, a tracker, and great at finding drugs, weapons, explosives, and hiding people.  Anyone who thinks a dog is a good offensive weapon is just blowing smoke.

Who said their dog is a 'good offensive weapon'?
As for k9 handlers being responsible for putting their dogs in harms way, so is the handler...it comes with the territory. You said k9 handlers get their dogs killed, so do pet owners. Dogs owned by everyday people get killed by cars because of owner complacency and stupidity.

'Some insane drive dogs will do what you ask of them even if it is wrong .. so the handler has to protect the dog from itself.'
It doesn't take 'insane drive dogs' to get run over by a vehicle, either. Handlers/owners need 'to protect the dog from itself' every day...that's why fences are imperative for responsible dog ownership...keeps dogs safe from the 'shelter' where they are likely to be killed.


"The dog is at best a defensive weapon, a tracker, and great at finding drugs, weapons, explosives, and hiding people."

Correct.This is what their job is.


"  Anyone who thinks a dog is a good offensive weapon is just blowing smoke."

Who made this claim on this thred?

I have a couple of questions:

1) If I have a gun, what do I need a jute sleeve for?

2) In the videos below, what are these police K9's doing? Defensive weapon? Tracker? Finding drugs, weapons, explosives? Finding a hiding person?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCZevHRLiEo

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCed1qBzy4g

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irOPwzd0SU0

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFtIXsVoe1w

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRVM8Hz8Vzo

nice post OGBS. you ask 2 question above, but a third question should be to the malcontent ;] are you off of your meds? Non lethal force in dangerous situations. LE protecting the innocent.

Bubba, once you get over the fact that humans created dogs for the express purpose of them working for us, you will better understand the true function of working dogs. Dogs are there to be used defensively or offensively, depends on what the situation calls for and the handler has sole descretion and is in charge of the immediate K9 scene, end of.

When the dog apprehends a suspect who may be armed, the dog stays on the suspect until he is either cuffed and secured or other officers are on him to secure him...its not the handler's job to worry about how little or much damage will be caused to said suspect during an apprehension when this person chose to ignore the law, possibly hurt or killed someone and has not given up when ordered to.

Yes, police/military dogs get hurt and sometimes killed, its not an easy thing to deal with as a handler, but, it is infinately easier to show up at home to your family and kids and tell them what happend, rather then having the agency chaplain show up and tell your family that your loved one died, but, hey, good news, the dog lived and we are now going to give him to another handler...

"If my butt was on the line I would like a dog with the fighting drive of Rocky balboa, Rambo, and the terminator combined."

 

you do realise these people are characters in fictional roles right?