Proposed IPO rule changes - Page 4

Yeah, but when a guy gets out of his truck with papers in hand bragging about the greatness of his female, its a no-brainer the pedigree is what impresses them. Interesting to get the owner's perspective so's ya know what kind of guy your dealing with....judging the dog is easy, knowing where the owner's focus is can take being patient and take letting them reveal their motivation to you.

These are only proposed changes like the elimination of the stick hits  a couple of years ago. Most will NOT happen if everyone makes enough noise against them. I like the idea of offering an option for the BH motion exercises. The other changes not so much

 

Thomas Barriano

These are proposals for one thing, make it easier for Black/red dogs to title.  Its time to split from the SV not just in USA but Europe a well.

 

Susie I'm going to be harsh, the training rules surrounding prongs / electrics occured because your society grew soft enough to allow it.  How much longer can a society that has gone so soft and creates such silly rules produce hard dogs? You are not helpless, split from the SV that was complicit in those stupid laws getting passed. Take your competitions to neighboring countries which are only several hours drive and maintain the strength of the dogs and the competition.  Pressure politicians to repeal the stupid laws, educate the public. Maybe if Germany loses those major working competions to another country they will see the light.  I doubt it though.

If things keep going down hill like this a major split will occur and that will be for the best.

Haz, you are not harsh, you are realistic about society.
But there is no way to "pressure" politicans. The German Shepherd dog still has politically advantages ( our breed is not on the "dangerous breed list yet ) - why?
Because the German Shepherd still is the "top" breed over here, no longer in real numbers, but in the minds of people.
On the other hand, although we are the biggest breedclub, there are by far more members of animal rights / animal care clubs, and within the dog clubs, be it SV, DVG, or any other clubs, the number of people who want to have fun with their friendly, active dogs increases, whereas the number of the "classic" dogsport members decreases for years now, and this will not change. It is what it is.
The only reason why we still are allowed to train officially, is because the dog clubs at first established the BH, than the "handler test", than changed the name of the sport - BgH 1-3 followed, right now they are going to establish a "temperament test" - I´m sure in less than 5 years it will be mandatory, too.
All of this was done because we had to do it, not because we wanted to do so.
No German is allowed to use a pinch collar or e-collar (that´s LAW, no club rule), no private person is allowed to agitate a dog "civil" - around 2 weeks ago the first handlers using e-collars from Cologne lost at court and had to pay a fine. Others will follow.
Right now we still do what we ever did, but it´s a matter of time, and it becomes more difficult day after day.

In the current SV magazine they write, that they want to establish a "competiton IPO" based on the current IPO3 - this will toughen the split, but right now the only readable attempt to "save" the quality.

I´m dreaming now, but I think in case they really lower the IPO 1 and 2 title, why not establish new rules prior to breeding ( either IPO3 mandatory, a more difficult breed survey, or even both ?) I wouldn´t mind for sure...

Susie wrote:

"Sorry, but, really, over here we WANT TO TRAIN, but we are heavily restricted by law, whereas on your side of the pond people still have every possibility they want to have, but instead of USING their possibilities people are complaining about EUROPEAN rules, although they  could do better - but most of the people on your side of the pond choose to do NOTHING."

Sums it up!

Thank you.

M.

Susie:

 

              For years i,ve said there is no  breed worthiness test. IPO is a sport and really isn,t useful in evaluation for breeding as it once was. Better training techniques and easier criteria for scoring has made individual evaluation so much more important. It is up to the breeders to evaluate past the IPO 1 a dogs ability and genetic quality before breeding. I,m sorry to hear that politics has tied your training options to this point in Germany. If it gets to that point over here I guess i,ll be paying alot of fines. There has to be a Breed Evaluation test apart from the IPO routine if the foundation of the breed is to survive. If UScA could see past it,s sometimes blind allegiance to Germany they could create a working breed test that could become a standard. There is a time and a place for a proper breed evaluation that high lites the dogs working abilities and genetic qualities.

so the US is destined to become the world vanguard of the GSD breed, all future dog traffic for those wanting quality working dogs will be from the US to Euro?

when will this great leap forward happen?

,

VK

 

The problem isn't Germany it is the SV and the showline breeders who run it. IF the Germans smarten up and go with Raisers RSV2000 they can still be the premier source of working GSD's.  If UScA goes with RSV Global and the Germans stick with the SV ?

Then the USA could become the go to source for a decent working GSD.

 

Thomas Barriano

Dobe, we could argue about SV the whole night long - reality is, that most of the working dogs ( I´m talking about German Shepherds, because that´s the "SV" breed ) still are bred under the umbrella of SV - and as soon as you would visit the single clubs, you´d see that most people are just training their dogs, and a lot of breeders are trying to breed good dogs. It´s not the fault of "normal" breeders and handlers, that potential international buyers are looking for "winners" instead of good dogs.

People coming from USA, Japan, China, Indonesia... are willing to pay 100.000s of dollars for winners - and several ( German ) people are trying to breed/train/sell "winners"for them. That´s understandable - a lot of monetary "successful" breeders would be nothing without their dogs.

STOP BUYING THESE DOGS and everything would be back to normality within a couple of years.
START TRAINING, BREEDING, TITLING your own dogs.
STOP CONDEMNING THE SYSTEM WHEREAS YOU SUPPORT IT.

RSV / Raiser has some good thoughts about selection ( and some I don´t like ), but even he has to deal with German law, and even he, through VDH, has to deal with FCI.

Normally I´d say "Go for yourself, better or change the system in your own country", as VK said, "so the US is destined to become the world vanguard of the GSD breed, all future dog traffic for those wanting quality working dogs will be from the US to Euro", I really wouldn´t mind....

Think about reality.

"For those that think RSV-2000 is the answer to this, I suggest reading their web site. The opinion there is that you shouldn't bother titling a female until you know it is a good puppy producer and good mother"

This is not ture! You still have to go do a tanlent test, and do a Sichtungen (Sightings) then you are aloude one breeding. it also mentions this every where on the pages, I guess you missed that OgBS

"Breeding regulations need to be fulfilled according to the FCI rules in each country. In case an RSV2000 club wishes to receive an additional certificate certificate stating that the breeding also fulfills RSV2000 regulations the following rules apply:

During a Koerung German Shepherd Dogs are evaluated as they are described at a sighting".