Distinguishing between " too much dog " , and bad temparament - Page 4

Blitzen, this has nothing to do with working/showlines, but with the temperament of single working dogs.

There always are different scenarios:

Did I raise the dog by myself? In case I did not, every reaction of the dog will be unknown until we got a reationship, and the dog knows who is the leader of the team.
Is this dog a strong dog? Dogs of this kind don´t tend to "like" injustice or poor leadership.
Is this dog insecure out of any reason? Flight or fight...

I admire strong dogs, and I always try to "convince" them that it´s worth to follow me. I raised several strong dogs - never had any problems, but that´s because I know what I´m doing. Working an adult dog is totally different, might become difficult, but mostly it´s worth the time.

Once again, doesn´t have anything to do with any lines.
 

That's an extenuating circumstance, duke. I'm talking about a dog I have owned from puppyhood, a dog that has never been abused in any way and a dog that is physically sound. If that dog bites me, it's dead. If I buy an older dog and that dog bites me on purpose, it's dead.  I won't have it any other way.

Susie, I'm not only talking about GSD's, so lines aren't a factor in the big picture. They do matter when we are talking about how we view any sort of human aggression in a dog. Duke takes a different view and has the skill needed to work with  "questionable" dogs  to try to find them the right owner. Me, I don't do that, they bite me, they're dead and that's the end of the story. I don't sit around trying to figure out where I went wrong, what I could have done better, how I might be able to live with that dog. There is absolutely no room in my life for a dog I can't trust. If my dog blows a bunch of OB trials or doesn't get enough points to finish it's Championship, things like that, of course I don't send the dog over the rainbow bridge. I'll take another look at my methods and accept that I did something wrong. But any dog that is not genetically programmed to work next to me without turning on me or a judge, is not a dog I would keep for very long.

'IMO any dog that bites it's handler on purpose is not mentally stable. '
Blitzen, if you've ever been around some people 'training' their gsd for sch, you'd understand why some are inspired to bite their handler...many handlers bitten by their dog probably deserve it.

I,d have to say Blitzen that your statement about getting bit is in my honest opinion an over reaction. I,ve seen people get bit including my self by there dogs and 9 times out of 10 it,s handler error miss reading the dog or not paying attention to what the dog is telling you or acting or some times just a stupid move (Guilty here). I,d never put a dog down over a bite ? Surely your meaning is if your dog attacks you unprovoked?  Even then I,d do some serious evaluating of the dogs fitness and what happened to cause it.

 

 

Nope, Bob, I mean any dog that aggressively puts it's teeth on me in anger hard enough to break the skin is gone ASAP. I've had about 35 dogs and I only needed to deal with one for biting me, a GSD, and it will never happen again.

Hey, it's up to each dog owner what they put up with from a dog. I have a very short fuse when it comes down to my own dogs' biting me. I've been bitten many times when I worked as a tech and when I boarded, but I'll be damned if I'm going to condone one of my own dogs biting me. I don't hurt my dogs, my dogs don't hurt me. I'm going to agree to disagree wtih anyone who would excuse their dog from biting them blaming it on their own error. We are not on the same page and never will be.

I was trialing my Axel for his Sch2 in Indy under Mike Hamilton and during the the walk to the dumbells I stepped on axels right foot with my left (all 500 poundsof me) he hammered me with a grip on my left thight that would make a spartan cry and it was full! I yelled fooz and kept going blood was running down my leg and Mike came to me and said  Bob should we check that ? I said nope and he said continue and we finished the routine. I did pass the obedience and Mike tells that story every where he goes. My reason for this tromp down memory lane is i,d never in my wildest dreams even think about putting him down and yes he was angry i stepped on him. He is now 14 years old and probably the best dog i,ve ever owned.

It happens!  

I'd have bitten you too .

'I'd have bitten you too'
That's exactly what every one is trying to tell you. Now you get it. Why should a dog have to pay with his life for a mistake the dog made or a mistake or stupid training on the handler's part. Killing a dog is so final for an infraction that's not likely to happen again.
Last week we were working a green young male of mine with a green decoy. The dog was getting more pressure than a youngster should be getting, because the decoy is learning, and my dog got loaded up so much that when I pushed the tug out for the decoy, my dog reached down and got my whole knee, front to back in a full mouth grip. As soon as he realized it was the wrong person, he shook his head spitting out my leg. The damage was minimal, but it still hurts below my knee where his upper k9 connected squarely. So according to you he should be killed because he made a mistake. If a person isn't prepared to get kicked by a horse, they shouldn't take up horse shoeing...likewise, if you're not prepared to get bit sometime, don't take up protection training with your dogs.

Joan, that was meant to be a joke. I do get it but I just don't agree with it is all. You do it your way, I'll do it mine. BTW your dog spit you out, he'd have gotten a pass from me. I've  already said that was what I expect my dogs to do.