Distinguishing between " too much dog " , and bad temparament - Page 6

Gustav, normally I wouldnt buy into the line story either but there is a history with this blood line.  I know of a half brother in NC that by 2 years old was uncontrollable.  He was at a very well known training centre for working K9s and was imported young and brought up there.  Other half brothers also have similar reps.  So we can be fairly certain in the case of that dog it was not handling.

  I will PM you the pedigree.

Thanks Haz, that would be additional information that could be very helpful in determining an answer.

Surely some of this is about being able to  'read the dog.'

IME  dogs who bite their handlers (in Sports, everyday life, wherever)

usually show why they are doing it, in their demeanor - do others

agree ?  So if its a 'fight / flight' thing eg because the handler stood on the

dog's foot or got in the way of some exercise,  the body language and

the expression in the dogs eyes shows no real anger / intention behind

the bite, and the release on realising its got a mouthful of human flesh is

fast;   but if it is retaliation for deliberate bad treatment, or a dog gone into what

some trainers describe as the 'red zone', there is a concentration and ire

in the bodily and facial expressions of the dog that is hard to mistake by anyone

not a complete novice.   Hence I for one would 'forgive' bites like the former, and

train to  avoid them being given a chance to happen again.  But if the latter, I would

find it hard to trust that dog again;  and in severe cases might well wish to go the

route suggested by Blitzen.   It depends on how able, and how quick, you are to

recognise what the dog is telling you. 

Exactly, Hundmutter.  

Genetics absolutely produce dogs that can be handler aggressive. Duke is probably familiar with Arno Kleine Schaars who produced dogs with such extreme possesion drives that many of their handlers were bitten when approaching the helper or the box during the search for it in the woods. 

Many dog bites of owners is the result of a strong or dominant dog rising to or being allowed to gain top place in the pack. Once at top, their way of expressing themselves, whether it is correction or retaliation or maintaining order is through biting. The dog aspiring to go to top is instinctive in these dogs and not a FAULT. Dogs don't solve issues through caucus. The problem is the pack leader often has not or cannot set correct tone from the beginning. I see this occur a lot in this breed both in the past and present. It just reinforces my view that everyone should not own this breed, but it also saddens me that many people will fault the dog in these instances for being normal, where their inadequatcy is really the problem. This is not a warm and fuzzy breed, as some would make it.

there are several lines known in various breeds, Fado and Asko Lutter (Haska) both are known to give some tough cookies and yes it is about how far you let them get control over you from day one, like said by me and others, often it is great and bragged about when they are young, but not corrected in time and too much when they are big boys

Those are the candidates brokers are offered to buy ...