passive decoy engagement test - Page 3

"A passive attack is a demonstration of the dog reacting to it's handlers verbal command.
Say for instance someone made a death threat to you verbally in dulcet friendly tones whilst smiling.
The dog would not necessarily pick up on that threat, why would he, to him you are not being threatened. For me a passive attack simply demonstrates a bond/trust/total understanding between dog and handler."

big

"@vk4gsd - Correct me if I am wrong, but you are not training the dog to 'attack unprovoked', instead you are showing a clip of your progress and wanted to see if your dog had the character to engage without threat. You are at step x in a series of steps within your program.
Am I correct in my thinking??"


someone totally gets it, right there in the post above.

 

frankly i am a little perplexed that people that have been in the breed forever including some breeders have to ask what the point of what a engagement test is meant to reveal about the dog, i thought that was GSD 101?

I believe Hundmutter has a very long history with the breed and training. I doubt she doesn't "get" what you are trying to do, vk. She just doesn't agree with your methods, reasoning, and outcome.

Be aware - a GSD that latches on to a sleeve or a bite suit, does NOT, necessarily mean, that dog denotes courage/serious intent to protect. In many cases ALL it means is that the dog wants to play a well rehearsed game of tug o war with lobster arm man.

In simple terms: those dogs will only pseudo protect, if the burglar is wearing a sleeve/bite suit.
(visual/scent trigger which the dog is familiar/comfortable with, including the angle which the decoy PRESENTS the sleeve / arm to the dog lol)

The truth is - getting a good dog to reliably protect, requires serious environmental exposure/conditioning, the dog must be well balanced and friendly/neutral around people and other dogs. and be conditioned and trained in many different environments.

Regards
Gee

Be aware - a GSD that latches on to a sleeve or a bite suit OR ENGAGES IN A MUZZLE, does NOT, necessarily mean, that dog denotes courage/serious intent to protect.

I think most of us are aware of the limitations of training and testing short of a real incident occurring.


@ blitz "I doubt she doesn't "get" what you are trying to do, vk. She just doesn't agree with your methods, reasoning, and outcome."

 

she is so lucky you are here to speak for her.



 

Vk4 - completely disagree with you, re engaging in a muzzle.

Your dog came out and was expecting to find the bad guy in a suit, he duly performed his practiced routine. (he bit the fat suit)

Now, re a dog engaging in a muzzle - completely different kettle of fish.

Firstly, the dog has to have supreme confidence that he can over power the bad guy - even without using his teeth.

Secondly and more relevant to your video - he is not prompted by the conditioned game of biting the fat suit.

As I stated in my first response - if you want a true reading re passive attack, ditch the fat suit, because it proves nothing. Also you use the word "test" replace it with routine.

Regards
Gee.

it was a test If the dog would engage a passive decoy in a suit.

not the only test that can be done in dogdom but it is a test that the dog was given.

has the dog been tested in every possible scenario in every possible environment conceived by every possible trainer and have I claimed it is a finished dog - no.

I doubt routine is defined strange location and first time dog has not been overtly stimulated as per previous training.

a point in time variation to previous routines to see dog's reaction - I have seen titled dogs fail the same test.

VK4 - here is an example of what I am talking about:

A dog I have the pleasure of owning and have personally trained, facing stiff opposition, wearing a hidden leg sleeve.

This dog is a real protector, he is not playing games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_1REXxptQ8

Regards

Gee

gee, I just saw the first clip, dude as much as I like the look of your decoy the dog in a muzzle letting out a timid whimper on command while back tied says absolutely zero about the dog or passive engagement - WTF were you thinking, why didn't you let the dog go and then you might have a point...seriously.

second test "the death stare" seriously WTF are you thinking or even commenting for.

last test if that is not a tug-of-war on a "fat" sleeve then color me purple.

thanks for clips, I know where you are coming from, again, like the look of your decoy and nice dog.

 

no need to watch the second clip me thinks.

just saw clip in last post, better for sure.

already done leg bites, no problem.

more decoy pressure would have come from smothering the dog and standing over it, not moving away from it like escaped wounded prey, noises are irrelevant.

 

and seriously you think my dog is playing games.