Anomaly outside of widely held belief about Defense Drive - Page 16

Pete says; 'as far as IPO dog not being bothered by strangers there is also a nurture factor -...'

'.... a dog saturated with exposure to hundreds of dogs, spectators, handlers in different locations and is forced.to frikkin behave itself it is just going lose suspicion nless it is an unstable dog.'

I don't agree at all with this statement above ^^^^..a dog guarding what is his IS behaving. Did you ever walk past a participant's rig with their sch dog in side...my own dogs would try to come out of the crate after any one walking too close.
A male I bred my female to was a competition dog, been all over the world. Nobody comes into his home without an OK from his owner. The decoy I've used who has worked the dog told me the dog lives with his owner and rides loose in the backseat of the truck. When the decoy is going in the truck with them, the owner has to take the dog out, let the guy get in the front seat, then load the dog into the back seat. Same routine when they drop the decoy off at his destination. That territorial trait is why i decided to use him.
My own sch dogs, traveled all over the south going to trials, and clubs when I was proofing them during training...nobody is getting on this property without my dogs barking, behaving properly not allowing strangers on the place. I select for territoriality.
Pete, some gsd have been selected and bred for overt friendliness or absolutely no territoriality. Barking in prey drive at a decoy is not the same as guarding house and home.
Suspicion is instinct, and no amount of exposure is going to make a dog loose it IF the dog is stable.
Not being 'suspicious' on trial field is because there's nothing to be suspicious of, once the dog has been aclamated. But take the dog to the hotel and it will be watching people in the parking lot in the dark, as it should be.
BTW, I know a female who competed at the BSP and if you walked into her home unannounced, you would be dog bit. ( or as some like to say, your life would be changed forever,lol)

Incidentally, vk, if you believe that a dog will stop being suspicious of strangers with exposure if they are stable, how is your dog with strangers walking up on your property? Does he greet them, or just lay there with his head on his paws?

oh he greets them, dam does he greet them.

but my dog is bred for territorial behaviour from a long line of junk yard dogs which reinforces my post.

there is enough variation in the breed so everyone can get what they want, I used to have a problem with that but now I don't.

there is no one breed that is the GSD anymore  in reality, there are a collection of sub-sets on a general theme that are specialised for very different purposes, hell they hardly even look like each other and few of them look anything like the original fouundation dogs and even fewer, practically none, do what the original breed was bred for...so be it.

I agree, the territorial trait is selected for, or against. I want it, it is supposed to be in the gsd character. The absence of suspicion and territorialiy has nothing to do with how many trials a dog has been to. :-)

Good post Joan ..you are one of the knowledgeable persons on this board; i have learnt a lot from you.

I believe location, raising, lifestyle etc will blunt or enhance how a dog responses, hence we have a thing called training - all dogs bar none have prey, defence, suspicion and territorial behaviour in varying degrees.

well bred dogs have been selected to push various traits forward or push them back.

most buyers don't want a dog bred too far in any direction, having said that it is the most extreme dog in a narrow range of traits that breeders flock to in order to be noticed at show or trial

all this causes a dilemma for those that get their knowledge from the internet and are too lazy to spend time on the ground looking at dogs before a purchase.

really the average dog owner ime wants rin-tin-tin but does more research to buy a new washing machine than buying a dog.

'all dogs bar none have prey, defence, suspicion and territorial behaviour in varying degrees.'

^^ nope.

Vkgsd, I appreciate your informing us of what the breed is today and where to find good dogs....lol

Gustav you have often posted on the differences and splits in the breed compared to previous times.

"'.... a dog saturated with exposure to hundreds of dogs, spectators, handlers in different locations and is forced.to frikkin behave itself it is just going lose suspicion nless it is an unstable dog.'"

Like Joan, the above is something I don't agree with. A great deal of exposure (more the better, and earlier the better) is required as part of the dog's socialization, but natural suspicion and discrimination are part of the fundamental instincts of the dog. Either the dog has it, or the dog does not have it. Territorial behavior is also instinct.....either the dog has it, or the dog does not have it. Good nerves along with boldness/courage is genetic.....either the dog has it, or does not have it. You can mask a lot of shortcomings via training, but you simply cannot put these genetic traits into a dog that lacks it.

A dog that fires up on the sport field like a champ, but lies around like a dummy when strangers walk into the owner's yard, genetically lacks the above-said instincts, and is the result of multiple generations of breeding selectively AWAY from those instinctive/fundamental GSD traits, and is just a showdog on the sports-field. Unfortunately, there are too many of those (essentially Labs in GSD clothing) around, with high sports titles, and they are getting bred more and more.........which also means that GSDs with good fundamental GSD instincts, and having good nerves, are becoming more the exception than the norm.