GSD orgs, a guide for the perplexed. - Page 1

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by vk4gsd on 21 September 2015 - 22:09

I felt it deserved its own thread. I think I ask for a lot of people. What are all the seemingly many different GSD orgs, what is the purpose assuming their purpose is unique to a niche. Not asking about politics, just definitions and explanations.

Sorry if this is too dumb a question.

momosgarage

by momosgarage on 21 September 2015 - 22:09

@vk4gsd, few people in this community understand how these organizations overlap and it gets worse with every passing year, as the knowledge leaves the various organizations, never to return again.

The ones I know that can cater specifically to German Shepherds, with titles recognized by the SV, are DVG and the Internationale Rettungshunde Organisation (IRO).  RSV2000 has its place as well, but its VDH and FCI, so titles earned through them are not SV/WUSV recognized for breeding.

You know whats funny?

Guess which USA based working dog organization has the MOST knowledge about FCI rules and how they apply to the clubs offering FCI events in United States?

HANDS DOWN, the North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association (NAVHDA). Yes, these guys really investigated how to work with FCI over the last DECADE and REALLY know this stuff inside out. The reality that both the GSDCA and the AWDF need to start paying the NAVHDA to consult them on how to proceed in the future because they both don't seem to know much at this point.

Search the various "Versatile Hunting Dog" forums and you will see an open, transparent, dialog about what NAVHDA did in discussions with FCI and how they eventually weighed the various REAL solutions available to them. Although not the same sport, the administrative procedures are transferable to the problems we are seeing now and its really a shame that the people running these organizations can't put their egos aside and say "we need help because we don't know how these international rules really function in the real world".


bubbabooboo

by bubbabooboo on 22 September 2015 - 00:09

Spare me the glory of the great wizard of Oz the FCI. The FCI amounts to didley squat in the USA. There is no FCI member in the USA and if there was it would be one of the kennel clubs either AKC or UKC. The FCI has one member per nation and operates as a subsidiary of the European Breed clubs and Kennel clubs. VDH is the FCI member in Germany. Individual breed clubs can not be members of the FCI. Quite literally the AKC could buy and sell the FCI. The FCI is just a front for the big kennel clubs in Europe through which they have tried to extend their reach and control to other countries. The FCI is so subservient to the Breed Clubs and Kennel Clubs that the GSD is considered the "property" of Germany and the FCI board that writes the breed standards for the GSD is essentially run by the SV. The USA and especially the AKC have no need of the FCI or their paper kingdom. The AKC and the FCI have a letter of understanding which in effect says the AKC will acknowledge FCI titles and pedigrees and the FCI must reciprocate. I hear this BS from time to time about the powerful FCI but in reality the FCI exists to serve the European Breed organizations as a front on the worldwide stage. The FCI is very similar to the WUSV which is an appendage of the SV with the same leadership but re-badged. Under the FCI scheme certain countries claim ownership and virtual control of a breed with the GSD belonging to Germany as an example with sports such as IPO shared but heavily controlled by Breed Clubs ... the IPO rules were heavily influenced by the VDH and their SV component.  In Germany Schutzhund has been primarily a GSD sport and among many Germans it is not seen favorably ( membership has dropped from 100K to 55-60K in 10-12  years).  The IPO badge was something of a rebranding of the German Shepherd sport and now we see the leadership of the SV and VDH know the way the wind is blowing in Europe and are trying to diversify the GSD sports into agility and other non-biting sports.


by vk4gsd on 22 September 2015 - 01:09

Post does nothing to explain what FCI or any other org is or does.

can this be not another thread on life and the universe according to bubbabooboo.

bubbabooboo

by bubbabooboo on 22 September 2015 - 01:09

Go to the FCI web site if you want the FCI version of what the FCI does and is. The AWDF and some of the other biting dog sports make noises about FCI from time to time but they are not and will never be members of the FCI. My explanation does explain quite well what the FCI actually is and who the organization represents and is beholding to. The FCI represents the national European breed clubs that are it's members and control the FCI and the FCI is a weak sister compared to the money and finances of the AKC or the British based Kennel Clubs.  The FCI would like to get control of other countries but the British monarchy based countries have either resisted or split into two camps.  The Chinese will likely follow the AKC model and remain independent or may start their own "worldwide organization" for Asia.  There is no need for the AKC to ever join the FCI.  The FCI is like  WUSV .. worldwide but for a small world.

http://www.fci.be/en/


bubbabooboo

by bubbabooboo on 22 September 2015 - 01:09

If anyone wants to understand what all of the Breed and Kennel Clubs are about in the various countries and the world then follow the money. Whoever your money for registration and pedigrees goes to has the power. In the USA the money for litter registration and for individual dog registration through the AKC ( normally $30 ) goes to the AKC and I suspect the breed club for that dog breed may also get something from the AKC but this has never been explained. In Germany for as long as the SV has existed the SV has issued their own pedigrees and collected the money for their own coffers. The relationship between the VDH ( the German AKC ) and the SV ( the German GSDCA ) is reversed. As bad as the AKC is the cost of registering a litter of puppies and individual registration of dogs is more expensive in the FCI controlled satellites of the European breed clubs. Also if you want the cost and complexity of registering dogs to increase then the FCI will take your money either directly or as a surrogate of the European Kennel and Breed Clubs.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 22 September 2015 - 09:09

This thred should be titled "GSD Orgs of America, a guide for the perplexed".

GSDCA, WDA et all have no great standing outside the USA, even unto the
southern or northern (Canada) extremes of the same continent. You should
realise that, as an antipodean. Yeah I know the Americans think they are
"the World", but really that's just something they choose to call their competitions.

As you will see if you follow Bubba's instruction and google it, the FCI is primarily
a European show society for those countries which did not have their own kennel clubs;
these days more of them now do have KCs but the FCI has retained its coordinating
role. I have queried on here before quite why it has become involved in American
affairs / competition / politics / GSD assessment - it does not seem to have a major
role in Germany either, because they have the SV and the WUSV. Perhaps it has
something to do with trying to circumvent the influence of the latter ? (To dissenters.
the grass is always greener somewhere else !) OR maybe it was originally due to
confusing it with another 'FCI' based in Mexico ?

by vk4gsd on 22 September 2015 - 09:09

So kc's only answer to their own members?

by gsdstudent on 22 September 2015 - 11:09

if you get involved with the breed you will meet all types of GSD people. Stay involved and you will meet those who know and understand the breed. You will also meet the loud profit, the ''all dressed up with no place to go'', the false profit, and many a lost soul. I had the same experience looking for a church. hey bbbb; ch__ch, what's missing? U R.

by vk4gsd on 22 September 2015 - 11:09

OT but what church did you end up finding and why?
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