got some sheep - Page 4

Yeah, I live in the country, by design not chance, so that I could train my sled dogs, that I had till they died of old age, 15- 16. Then raising goats for human food, it was just natural to used my gsds to work them. Price of feed got crazy high so sold the herd. In order to continuev to train my dogs, I got as many sheep as I could afford and that the pasture will keep well. I'm not rich and can't afford two hundred sheep for 'tending',besides, that would bore me like watching paint dry.

I'm curious...Joanro, why do you think that tending is boring? I understand about not being able to easily find and afford to keep and work 200 sheep (I live in the suburbs of Southern California with a postage stamp sized backyard), but "tending" fascinates me. It seems to me that tending is unique to GSDs (or can other breeds also be trained to tend?), and calls for a deep relationship between human and dog to move 200 sheep. It depends on the dog being a good problem-solver to work sheep far away from the handler.
Will your herding work with the dogs be similar to what I see with border collies in sheep herding trials? Border collies work sheep so differently from every other kind of herding dog (that I've observed).

Zenith you may have already read this article about getting a GSD ready for tending a large flock. Ulf Kintzel has a number of videos on his White Clover Farm site about training and trialing GSD's for their HGH title. It all looks exciting to me.

http://www.german-shepherdherding.com/german-shepherd-herding/

Quote: "...not the tending style with huge flocks standing in a bunch grazing."

I am sorry but this statement is not informed by what tending herding entails.

In continental Europe, large flocks of sheep (ca 1000 head) are moved on roads and paths with agricultural fields on one or both sides. The sheep are not allowed to graze in the agricultural fields and destroy the farmers' crop. But of course these unfenced fields are tempting fodder for the sheep who are eager to dive into this pantry. The shepherd/ess and his/her dogs have to keep the sheep from getting into the fields on their way between pastures where sheep are permitted to graze. Thus the dogs move up and down the sides of the flock ('living fence'), ready to drive any escapees back into the flock, if necessary with a grip. Btw, these sheep aren't all docile. There are rams of varying degrees of aggressiveness and matriarch ewes who guide their flock, and they test the sheep dogs. When the flock has to go through a narrowing passage such as a bridge, the dogs have to keep the sheep that don't fit on the bridge from taking off on the sides.

Once the flock has arrived at a pasture, the dogs' work isn't over. If there are agricultural fields nearby, the sheep still want to wander there. If there are roads with traffic nearby, the dogs have to keep sheep away. And they have to deal with off leash dogs that try to break into the flock to chase and harm the sheep. These pastures are not fenced either.

At night the dogs have to get the sheep into their pen. Tending 1000 or so sheep through a gate is highly demanding work.

A tending herding instinct test looks specifically for what is called 'boundary instinct', the ability and willingness to move alongside the flock. In addition to general livestock soundness. A tending herding instinct test has little to do with the popular general 'herding instinct tests', many of which just let the dogs chase a small group of unfortunate livestock in a pen. Any dogs that chases and doesn't turn tail gets to pass these. A tending herding test requires the dog to think and have self control, and show the boundary instinct.


 

Zenit, the videos I've seen of gsd doing tending was just a mowed grass path around the herd, the sheep grazing, while they dog trotted around the herd following the path...that's boring to me.
Living fence is what the beauceron were called...

'Btw, these sheep aren't all docile. There are rams of varying degrees of aggressiveness and matriarch ewes who guide their flock, and they test the sheep dogs. When the flock has to go through a narrowing passage such as a bridge, the dogs have to keep the sheep that don't fit on the bridge from taking off on the sides.'
Sounds like 'herding' not tending. Herding trials in this part of the us do that but not with two hundred head of sheep. Herding is what im talking about that will test a dogs nerves and biddability. Ever try to work two or three hundred pound goats? They can kill a dog...and a human. But so can a nasty ram. I would bet akc trials dont use nasty rams or ewes. But i only have experience here in this little bitty part of the  usa , not all the other countries around the world.

That is exactly what the GSDCA national site says about the tending instinct test they are offering. It sounds very interesting to me. I wish I were going. Why is it always an assumption that the GSDCA makes everything as easy as they can? Judging by the people who are administering this test and those I know personally who are working in herding/tending, I don't expect it to be easy for most GSD's to pass and those dogs that do will be accomplishing something very special.

Tending Instinct Testing evaluates the dogs aptitude to patrol a border, working with a flock of sheep to demonstrate an interest in the stock and a willingness to honor the border between dog and sheep. This style of testing takes longer than the more often seen round pen testing, as the dog is taught to honor the border. There will be a maximum of 20 dogs tested.

 

Some people like watching, some like doing. If I'm going to just watch, I'll go on yt and watch the Real herding dogs, border collies, doing real herding. Didnt need to start this thred for that:-) 

"....a willingness to honor the border between dog and sheep."

A dog can't herd if he's not allowed to interact and enter that border.:-) This thred was originally meant to be about the gsd 'herding', not 'tending'. But whatever you say, blitzen.

Joanro, LOL! From the way you describe a mowed path with sheep grazing, yes, that would bore me as well. :)

Living Fence, your description was what I was thinking about tending sheep and moving them across pastures and penning for the night. That working relationship fascinates me for some reason. :)

Blitzen, yes, thanks, I have read that article.

I think I need to learn more about herding trials because tending will probably never be something I will get the opportunity to do, but herding is a possibility about 45 minutes from home for me. Thanks Joanro for resurrecting the interest for me!