Opinions please - Page 2

Nick3981, You can look up the results of hip x-rays at offa.org
If you cannot find an entry for a dog, then either no x-rays were submitted for rating, or the ratings were so poor that the owner opted to not release the results.

Demand records of health clearances. A veterinarian's statement is insufficient for hip and elbow ratings, it should be OFA or Penn Hip rated in the US. Unless the dog is an import or was otherwise rated abroad, then SV or RSV rated.
The cost of health testing the parents is reflected in puppy prices. It is well invested money.

Considering an adult, as others already suggested, is a good option.

The ELBOW rating on the dam is supposedly 'excellent'. Now my understanding is elbows either rate 'pass' or 'fail', they are not graded the same way hips are. Hips are 'not known'. Now, who has a dog's elbows x-rayed, and doesn't do the hips?? HUGE HUGE red flag! Right away I'm thinking the hips didn't pass, and they are either covering it up, or didn't bother submitting the x-ray because they KNEW they wouldn't pass!

Other than that, just because the dam's side doesn't have titles doesn't mean the puppy is a piece of crap! It just means someone kept the dogs as pets (see the Christmas tree picture?) Look at the breeding behind them, go back far enough, and you see some very, very good dogs from top German lines.

I'd evaluate the pup's temperament, check into hip scores on the dam's side, and if the price was right, and I could get a good contract re. hips and elbows, I'd take a chance on the pup. It's just going to be a pet, for pete's sake!

If I still had doubts, I'd go for an older dog, or a pup with fewer unknowns in the pedigree re. hips and elbows. You can get OFA prelims done on an older dog, and be fairly sure the hips and elbows will be okay.

Titles don't matter as much to me as the individual dog's temperament. My older female's dam wasn't titled, due to health and time issues with the breeders, and she has a fantastic temperament.  But with 3 generations of clear hips on both sides of the pedigree, she has one hip that's mildly dysplastic!  :(  She's perfectly sound, though, and it hasn't prevented me from doing anything I wanted to do with her, except for breeding her.

Wyzal does not say this female is OFA excellent, he just says "excellent hips and elbows" some of his other dogs are advertised that way, excellent hips and elbows. I couldn't find any Wyzal GSD's in the OFA database. Others are said to have A1 hips and elbows. Not sure how to verify that. He often advertises litters on the PDB and seems to have an ongoing turnover with dogs he buys and sells for resale.

I think I'd stay away from this breeder were I the OP. I'd be more concerned about his honoring a contract if necessary than I would about the puppy's being a good pet. If the dam doesn't have an OFA number or A stamp, that would be the deal breaker for me.

 

IMHO this puppy would be a big "NO" for me (even as a pet) all my dogs are companions and pets in the first place.
The sire has some "OK" lines behind, I really like some dogs Uran vom Moorbeck has produced but a linebreeding on him is from my experience not advisable. Secondly he`s linebred on a HD Fast-normal dog, Cary vom Fiemereck. In addition to that the Dam`s side sounds very questionable if not dubious to me. Thirdly both dogs which are linebred on go back to Palme vom Wildsteiger land with just too much genetic backmassing on her. I am very aware of the fact that 98% of all modern showlines go back to her, but this is simply overdone. Note that Palme was also HD fast-normal. Thirdly from my experience with GSD puppies and how they turn out, I can tell you that this puppie´s topline, pigment and expression are most likely not the best.

Don`t catch puppy fever, there are many good GSD puppies out there that make great companions. The lines behind Cary vom Fiemereck in my experience have produced GSDs prone to developing agression and temper issues, not easy to handle and I would not recommend them to someone looking for a pet.

There are many kind and helpful people on this forum who answer questions regarding specific dogs, their progeny and temper/ health which one cannot know by simply looking at a pedigree.

My experience with a Cary daughter has been excellent, SporterGSD. We have had no temperament issues whatsoever in 3 litters. All xrayed have cleared, no fast normals or NZ's. As a result of breeding that Cary daughter 3 times we produced 3 -IPO-3; 3 IPO-2; 4 IPO-1; 11 CD's; 9 CDX's; 4 UD's; 1 UDX-2; 1 UDX-3; 7 rally titles; over 40 agility titles; 4 AKC CH's; 7 BH's; 8 AD's; 12 CGC's; 1 TD; 1 VCD; 1 VCD2; 1 OM1 4 KKL1; 5 TC's; 1 hearing service dog and the first Am Bred AKC CH to earn a Sch3.

If not for my Cary daughter, I'd not have had the best tempermented and most beloved dog of my life.

 

There are no von Wyzal dogs in the SV database as per the SV genetics CD.

Lisa

The wife and I talked and we think that we are going to pass on this dog due to what had been said here. We were going to get a good deal, 800 dollars, on the dog due to being military and serving with this breeders brother but I think we are just going to keep looking. So for anyone out there that has any dogs available we are still looking. I am used to the breeder placing the right dog with the family , given the option the only thing that I would really prefer would be a dark or a dark sable coat. We really appreciate the help.

Blitzen, the dog's pedigree in the database says 'hips not known, elbows excellent'!

Not what I want to see on a pedigree... :(

I guess it doesn't matter, SS, since the OP has decided to not get one of the pups.