Here we go again - Page 3

Susie good post 👍 explains a lot . But still a lode of crap. Money love not breed love. Week ass SL if you new nothing about the breed and seeing that you would run a mile

Yogi, it´s not that difficult. In case you are a breeder take a look at the performance of the dogs ( males and females ) and decide afterwards about your next stud. During all the years I never had problems in finding good showline puppies for myself, but I always knew the dam personally and most often the sire, too ( at least I had seen the sire on the Siegershow, but most often during training, too ).
There are still good showlines out there, you only need to care...

I saw no problems with the helper work, in fact I thought it was consistent, fair, and the helper did not "crush" any dogs.   The helpers were working the dogs as instructed by the judges. This is supposed to be a TEST, not an automatic pass. If the threat of the schlagstock (sp?) prevents a dog from engaging the helper with conviction and strength then that dog is too weak to pass, period.

Koots

Glad to read someone is able to see reality.

No susie I'm not a breeder 2 litters in 7 years all work line my own male and female .you would have to say to get a solid all round SL you would have to search to the ends of the earth .

Yogi, I know you don´t breed showlines, my statement was made for all breeders, not for you in special.
I don´t care if a breeder uses "working" or "show" lines as long as this breeder uses healthy, stable dogs, able to work, and fitting to the standard.

Forgot to add: I didn´t need to go to the end of the world for my pups, I only had to visit the clubs in my neighborhood .

I know there are good SL GSD's...I have seen and worked some...But they aren't the ones that are campaigned...

But as someone said...Protection isn't the main goal or concern of a lot of people...You have to remember that if you would prioritize their training...Protection Training is at the bottom of the list...I don't think it's to make good points but only to NOT FAIL and to put a Pass or Fail in their Score/Show Books...

I think Protection for the SL's are just a Have To...Not the goal of their training...

~Bob~

Susie you must belong to an exceptional club. Most iv seen are well over rated.

All IPO is a game .. a ballet with the same dance moves. I doubt that the helper had anything to do with how the dogs reacted. Every dog on the field had practiced the steps and movements of this ballet at least a few hundred times and knew exactly where the helper was coming from and when. More likely the dogs were put off by being in a strange stadium with hundreds of strange people and dogs. This is what is known as the "singing dog" reaction or stage fright. I was a youth trainer for 4-H (ie county agent ) at one time and we had a yearly talent contest that started at the local club level and the winners ended with a county wide performance at a large venue. Some of the kids had a dog that could sing or dance or do math or some other talent at the club level. Those dogs always did great at the local club shows but under the lights of the big stage with 1000 people in the audience they just froze up and stared. Whether a dog does well on a big stage under unusual conditions has less to do with the dog but everything to do with the dog having practiced under similar conditions. I would not base my decision to use a dog for breeding purposes using such an artificial and/or orchestrated test as any IPO event represents for the dog. Under IPO rules a dog that does not out fails just as completely as one that does not engage. Stage fright is not an accurate predictor of the breeding worth of a dog nor are insane drives that are so intense that the dog will hurt itself or others.  Using an artificial test conducted under artificial conditions does not prove very much other than devotion to a system moreso than to the dogs.

Bubba, do whatever you want, your dogs will tell your story...