Intending to get a pup from this dog: Any view points? - Page 4

To me, the main thing is the dog is trained and behaves itself wherever it is taken. Personally, I keep a prong and Martingale collar in my car to use on my main traveling companion, Sarge, if I am in an area that is heavily populated, expecially with children. Most of the time I don't have to use it, but it is nice to have in the vehicle, just to make me feel better. For example, I don't use it at Tractor Supply but may put it on Sarge if I am at a soccer game, etc. I am blessed that Sarge loves children, but sometimes I just don't want to take a chance around kids.

I like the pedigrees on the parents of the pup you are thinking about purchasing. I would study the pedigrees real hard on the issue of hips and elbows before I bought one. 

Yeah, that "American" remark was unnecessary to make a point about a choice of dog training tools.

I certainly saved my arm sockets from bursa busting wrenches when Mojo was a pup when I bought the Sprenger. The usual advice to change directions and use the quick snap of the benign choke collar where having no effect. I discovered the amazing "cruise control" magic powers of the prong collar, and used it in the manner intended. We were now able to walk safely on the road! And he matured and training continued; it isn't needed any more. As a matter of fact I can't find it. Someone lost it or left it somewhere.

Mithuna most likely isn't posting for advice, but rather wants to vindicate his situation and his choices. We all see a dog bite coming and a law suit, but heck, he's going to have to experience that, to learn it. Tough guy syndrome with the cronies, probably. Not much we can do about it.

I do feel compelled to mention, that adding a second dog sure does change the dynamics. Keeping them separate is a stop gap solution and you should realize it never teaches them what they really need to learn. My 2 cents.

Trouble is, Bee, as has already been pointed out to
him, that if someone does get hurt (and I hope just
as hard as anyone that doesn't happen), but if she
does take a lump out of anybody - yeah, the owner
finally learns a lesson, but it can be too late for the
DOG. I don't know NYC byelaws in detail but I'm
guessing they might be pretty draconian these days.
Even in soft old England, we've gone inside 30 years
from "every dog is allowed one bite" to "kill that dog,
it scared somebody".

The thing re every day use of a prong collar : others
are making more of a 'thing' of this - perhaps unsur-
prisingly, given that we all tend to defend what we are
used to - was that it was the most recent in a line of
issues with the OP. Not necessarily the most important
one. I do believe however that he was describing using
it for a walk in the woods when he was talking about
lighting it up - not a stroll in a shopping arcade or past
a school.

Jenni, no, I have not handled that many (known) E European W/L
dogs, but I have handled SOME. Many of the GSDs I have
had through my hands I do not know WHERE they originally
came from (or what Kennel Name, if any, they had).
There have been GSDs in my life from E & W Germany (as was);
Holland; all over the British Isles (pls bear in mind the lesser
separation in type between Show & Work over here). There have
also been other large, strong dogs - Rotties; Boxers; Leonbergers;
a very strong Dane mix ... Plenty of opportunity for socket-wrenching
experiences ! There are big dogs, there are strong dogs, there are
stubborn dogs; sometimes these all come in the same package. I
guarantee you that in 99 of 100 cases I have / would be able to get
them walking sensibly and in a self-controlled manner (although
probably not neatly enough for competition standards !) without
resorting to even a check chain, much less a prong. I made the
effort. I did not normally have to resort to any sort of "yank n crank".
Now ask me if many of the stronger minded, higher drive ones
were among my "99.9 % solid recall" dogs ? No of course not -
so they had to be on leash 'all' the time if they were like that -
you think I wanted them pulling my arm out of its socket every time ?
'Course not.

This might explain a certain laissez-faire attitude, not to mention a certain irony. 

 

New York needs to move into the 20th Century (it was in that century that most of the strict liability dog bite laws were enacted). Although it is thought of as a liberal state, New York's dog bite laws are almost exactly the same ones that were created in the 17th century by British judges for the quaint English countryside. The highest court of New York has even ruled that there is no such thing as dog owner negligence. Reliance on the one bite rule is completely wrong, in modern New York or any other American state, because when the one bite rule was established there were no pit bulls, the practice of dog fighting had not been invented, there was no insurance industry to spread the risks, and there was no USA with its focus on fairness and human rights. All those things have changed, and that is why dogs have lost their right to bite in most states.

http://dogbitelaw.com/mixed-dog-bite-statute-states/new-york-dog-bite-law

And just because it might be good to know: http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/vet/veterinary_public_health_services_responsible_dog_ownership.pdf

Hundmutter, you missed my point. I didn't mean a prong for anything to do with "socket wrenching." I was making (trying, anyway) the point that it's not fair to judge on the use of a prong, period. I mentioned high caliber European working lines (not of any particular geography, mind you) from a temperament standpoint, not physical strength. My point was that different tools work for different temperaments.

I know someone who is an experienced trainer and breeder and sell many dogs to LE. I was once discussing a particular male with that person and she insisted that a prong is MUST for this male because of this temperament. I cannot accept that this person had NO knowledge or experience about what they were speaking about.

Yeah for a hard dog, not one who has no training.

Sorry to dissappoint hntr. That male had no training; she took it in from a family who had raised him, but overtime they became afraid him. He had very little interest in the ball but was extremely protective.

 I made the effort. I did not normally have to resort to any sort of "yank n crank".

-Hundmutter

Yeah for a hard dog, not one who has no training.

-hntrjmpr

Are people really resorting to a tool use decision to justify some sort of "better trainer than you mentality"? Kind of like the fish that got away— without some sort of you know... proof, like a video! 

Never mind the gross assertions involved in how such tools are improperly used, that are deliberately made with no regard to any sort of chance for real accuracy. 

Used properly, it is like a snaffle bit in a soft horse's mouth. There is never a "yank n crank". That is pure, as the Brits say, rubbish. I agree with Jenni, just plain unfair to judge the use of a prong— period. One can light a fire by rubbing two sticks together, or by striking a match. They both have their best scenario uses.

Mithuna,

A family who has become fearful of their own dog, its behavior is not due to being protective. He is resource guarding them. It is a much different concept.