Be honest : Is this your dog? - Page 17

Bav According to your understanding, which of the individuals( and WHY ) below will generate greater momentum over 50 m? ( maybe if they were shirtless we could also see the one with the " last two ribs showing".)

And Susie here is my interpretation:

I already mentioned that the limits of the standards were gradational as opposed to absolute. As you move away from standard weight performance on a certain task may decline , but it is not absolutely true that dogs above the standard weight cannot perform that task with the same efficiency. In other words you cannot argue ( at least logically ) for an absolute cut off point based on some observationally sampled weight range. On the other hand you can choose to go vox populi , and have the " hordes beating down on my gates ". The latter seem to be the modus operandi as to how many view points become " normed" on PDB.

Mithuna - according to your picture argument of the two runners, which one do you think would be the long-distance champion of the two? Equate this with a herding dog that has to have speed AND long-distance endurance.

Which part of the IPO ( or other dog sports ) bite work requirement needs the dog to trot all day??

And Koots, Bav was speaking about  momentum developed by the dog on a bite.

And also Susie ,
I know some of older folks on here are not comfortable with a heterodox way of thinking, because it may not carry the backing of the crowd.

I give up - you like a bigger GSD and that's OK, everyone has different tastes. But you do not seem able to accept why there are certain size requirements for the breed standard, no matter what people say, so I feel that we are all wasting our time trying to educate you about ANY subject that you bring up. You simply seem to want to argue and not realize that people are trying to educate you.

Uneducable

Db

Jenni, Hexe and others

My hope is that this thread and the examples that have been given will be an educational tool for those who are committed to learning about the breed and to the breed itself and in that spirit I will offer two bits of information myself.

However, this thread and others have clearly shown that Mithuna has absolutely no interest in learning, is certainly not remotely a steward of the breed or concerned about the breed. He only wants what he wants and has severely defective ideas to promote so in the future I feel we should try to limit his opportunities to do so by simply not responding to his threads and letting them die a quick and unanswered death or perhaps respond as one poster used to - ssdd.

My two bits. My dog Remy (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=485683-remy) had two faults. Her feet were not great but tg she did not pass them on and she was too tall. The latter served me since I used her as a mobility assist dog and could balance off of her but sadly for me she could not be shown or koered due to her size since she was in fact the maximum size for a male-65cm (and yes Susie I did wicket her myself) HOWEVER she weighed 73lbs.which would also be appropriate for a male. In fact a male I owned years ago was 25 in and 73 lbs. She was a strong kraftig bitch, agile and very powerful.  An extra 10 or 15 lbs would have serious impacted those abilities. She did not need extra tonnage to be powerful. Note in the picture below the air under Joel's feet ( Joel is over 6 ft and a very strong helper) that shows the power she hit him with. I agree with BW that excess weight often affects the working ability in many ways including endurance and persistence and thus I always kept her lean and strong and yes Mithuna that meant she had good muscles at that wieght.

Finally for those here to learn. Please please heed the prior postings that the GSD is and was designed to be a medium size breed NOT a large dog breed. The medium size brings with it agility and endurance which allows it to function at peak performance levels in the work whether that is protection or herding. Prior to 1968 in the United States our breed standard not only had height requriements ( 22-24in for bitches 24-26 in for males) but weight requirements ( 45-65 lbs for bitches and 65 - 85 lbs for males). These limits define a medium size dog. Even after 48 years, we still get what I call pocket rockets - small 40-45 lb bitches who show up  because they are in the genome. And every single one I have known has been a great worker with drive and energy up the kazoo.

IMHO it was a mistake to drop the weight requirements (they felt the height would control it so not necessary to include in standard). The reality was they were already on the path on oversize in the American show ring and by dropping the weight limits it was more difficult to call them on it. Since that time the creep has occured in both height and weight (saw one AMSL bitch years ago who was 28in tall. There was a reason tall long legged handlers were popular - made it much more difficult to guesstimate a dog's size tho good judges would have their own bulit in wicket based on their height and where a correctly sized dog came up to on them. Unfortunately the same thing has happened in the WGSL compounded by what appears to be either an infusion of Mastiff blood or the use of steriods IN VA animals - they are not correct. If you study the history of the breed you will find that there were other times when size creeped above the standard.  This was corrected by strict adherence to the measurements - no more fudging for your friends AND by choosing for Sieger and select(VA) dogs, dogs that were well within the standard and carried the genetics for it. So the current mess that has been created CAN be fixed with a dose of integrity and committment.

 

How can a rational person post pictures of human beings and make the comparison to dogs?

Earlier I told you to get some real experience. Get out there, strap on a sleeve, catch some dogs, let me know what kinds of dogs launch and hit with more power...then you'll understand why medium is better than large.