Sportism - Page 1

I have decided to stir thinks up a little. Another Hansism.

SPORTISM : Sportism is training of PP/LE/Mili dogs which uses sport approach as a foundation for PP/LE training. IMO opinion it is a faulty approach because it establishes permanent default (setting) on equipment preference. That is the last  thing we want to do if we want the dog to target people. 

 Yet that is how most train PP/LE dogs. 

:)

Prager Hans 

I second your comment. However I add just a little reply to the approach .

First i think someone needs to understand the dog . THAT is not always easy for many . That is to say , not all dogs are suited for this and that needs to be recognized. The same notion that all dogs are not even suitable for sport. We cannot make the dog what it is not .

Secondly, one should be very much aware not only what is being taught and reinforced , but also equally , how the dog becomes stimulated and what is done during and after the behavior.

For example Prager showed a young dog biting an arm on another thread. If you look at that dog on the thread , the young dog bit with pleasure , sureness , stayed in control . You can see no pressure mentally , emotionally or physically on the young dog. Nicely done. TThe helper built exact success within the dog with his interaction. Notice for example when the dog bit , the dog was not driven , not even 1 step back . The dog drove forward.

I have a pet peeve , even in sport work In Prager terminology , I default the first time and always thereafter , the bite going forward INTO the man !! Even a 7 week puppy the bite is right INTO the BODY the first time. That is to say , the arm is not outstretched away from the body. As Prager is trying to emphasize , do what you want the dog to do , and reinforce that. Even show line gs , 30 years ago we tied rags onto our bodies to teach the pup to bite right on the leg and /or arm !!

What happened in my time : sport became "sport" and the preference was to have the dog key on equipment. Now sports have the dog keying on the man . But this can be misleading too , because often the dog is keying in on equipment on the man ... and not the man himself. I agree , with Prager , for real life serious vocations . If we look at training as communicating and teaching I ask : Why teach a dog something initially , only have to rewire it's thinking and change the dog's behavior ? And this can difficult at times. We know that dogs repeat what is successful and what is predictable. This is why even in sport for leg bites , we teach right leg , left leg , right leg left leg to avoid the dog always running to bite a preferred leg. Same logical idea in training should apply : Why condition the dog to bite objects and equipment and develop that preference in the dog.

My pet peeve in training is : " the first time , the very first time, teach exactly what you want the dog / pup to learn" . If you want to teach biting a man .. then teach" biting a man ". Again , it is the how , where , why that is important in the teaching the suitable dog. !

what is hansism ??

 

Prager's name/nickname is Hans. He added -ism.

My perfectly sporty dog will just as happily bite the shit out of fleshy targets.

Don,t blame it on the dogs blame it on de breeders also if you look to
videos Alpine K9-Jinopo-Hans Prager blah blah blah its all very very sporty
and than they put a hypocriet post about sportism first this people have to look
in the mirror them self what they are doing..........and what they can NOT -JMO

Blackmalinoisism

disagree, its about mindset and balance of drives of a dog
you cannot UNteach or UNtrain civil behaviour out of a dog the same as you cannot train civil behaviour into a
100% preydriven dog

Do predator animals not bite prey animals unless they have sleeves on??

ism, ism, ism.

do predator animals not have defence to kick in when they are atacked by larger predators

Centurian: My pet peeve in training is : " the first time , the very first time, teach exactly what you want the dog / pup to learn" . If you want to teach biting a man .. then teach" biting a man ". Again , it is the how , where , why that is important in the teaching the suitable dog. !

 

Hans:   This what I call building a default ( setting) for particualr purpose.   What the  dog learns first he likes the most, does best and reverts to under stress. And the protection is stress if build on defense. I want the dog to have only one option in her mind when in protection stress and that is to fight and if pressure  escalates then i want the dog to escalate counter ressure. I teach the dog that that is the only way to deal with such pressure and increase of the pressure. And I teach it ideally in defense if I can. That is if I am starting with totally green dog. ( Dog which has sportism foundation needs to be trained differently)  In stressful defensive situation, where the dog is normally making fight  x flight choice  I do not want the dog to have any inkling about any possibility of choice of flight. The default is fight.  By building such default I am basically erasing flight option from the dog's mind.   In contrast in "sportism" approach the dog is at first taught to target toy and then sleeve and then that is channeled into defense of the sleeve ( or suit) on the ground by showing aggression towards the man. The problem with such defense is that it sleeve /equipment  is always part of such equation and in that case the default then is sleeve. Thus if the via sportism trained dog as it is widely done these days if the dog find itself in PP/LE stressful situation then  the dog is going to start looking for sleeve since that is his default and it takes quite a bit of retraining to push such attitude into the backgound where it will reside for the rest of the dog's life.   Where if I  from get go ( 6-12  weeks and up)  teach the dog to on command  target the man then man is the default and in stressful situation the dog is never looking for equipment, but will increase a pressure at the  decoy and ultimately the perp-man.  

 This approach where we build the default on man and not equipment,  eliminates at least in part - great  deal of the insecurity of a LEO K9 team in first street situation where the K9 hander always wonders what the dog is going to do.  

 Train as you fight and fight as you train. No perpetrators of crime  have sleeves so why to teach the dog to target a sleeve is mystery to me. 

 Iconoclastic Prager Hans

 Oh and let me not forget to add. JMO. :)