Personal Protection Dog Not Sport Dog - Page 4

Many schutzhund dogs have been converted to ppd and police K9. Many people don't understand the difference between schutzhund training and schutzhund training for points. Several Police K9 handlers have competed in schutzhund with their patrol K9's. K9 transferring the bite to the arm with a weapon is training. Youtube has a bunch of sales videos of personal protection, family protection dogs costing 10's of thousands of dollars. Many of those dogs are not very impressive. You should also be aware of your personal liability if your K9 bites someone.

The dog lost the first bite so naturally It went for a swinging/presented arm nothing to do with the weapon or transferring to a weapon arm. i think this was a one off (just happened) I have not seen any others videos from these guys showing the dogs choosing a weapon arm or training weapons first. Maybe someone else has and could post it.

Many leo I have spoke with do not want a transfer to the attacking arm. Tightening pressure and then pain compliance is the fastest end to the conflict for the majority. Bouncing back and forth with blows makes no sense. Ideally a dog like any empty handed fighting practitioner would attack the weapon first for the best outcome. Transitioning to a weapon is backwards. In the video it might make sense as the weapon is hidden when the dog reaches the fight, but as stated I think it not as presented.

Used to be routine for Sch dog to transfer to LE dog, today there are some; there are far more that can't. Remember every adult dog in Germany that is breed able is Sch titled. Yet many LE forces in Germany are using Mals. I had this verified by Bernard Flinks who may know something about LE dogs in Germany. He told me specifically that there is big difference in his competition dog for sport and the dogs he uses or trains for dept. Thats not to say that no competition dog could make the transition.....but most can't!!! Or else the Germans would have no need to use Mals.

Thats the disconnect Gustav some say good working class dogs are everywhere or dogs for the majority are better now then before. The facts however don't support that idea.

Biased, anecdotal evidence, of one person is now considered fact?

Interesting...

Let's keep pushing the agenda...

BW theres nothing anecdotal about it. If you talk to just about anyone who trains with working dogs thats one of the first things brought up in just about every conversation I have. PS what would be that agenda? 

EVERYTHING is anecdotal about it. You just admitted that all of your information on this is anecdotal. See the definition below:

an·ec·do·tal

(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research

Other people that CURRENTLY live in Germany have explained on this forum why the malinois is being used more by CERTAIN police departments in Germany. There have been articles posted that have pointed to this being a regional thing and not across the whole country. But hey, that type of information and data is rejected...why? Doesn't support the agenda that some of you guys have on here.

Splitting hairs most all forums including this one for the majority state that. There is no scientific test tube that could bring proof positive, look it turned red. If the majority in the field have an opinion on it, discounting their opinion for not offering a factual study on it does not make them wrong. In the absence of a testing mechanism what would you you prefer. Again what agenda, whats to gain?

Ok...so me, living in a top 30 most populous city in the United States...all their dogs...German Shepherds. The suburbs in my area...all have GSD K9s.

Here's a photo gallery of the New York State police K9s.

https://www.troopers.ny.gov/Specialized_Services/Canine_Unit/Canine_Gallery/

Let me know what breed you see on there more often. And by more often, I'm talking more than 90%.

I believe there's a broker on this forum who has stated that it's way easier for them to find a GSD that is capable of the work their clients need than a malinois.

There are stories and statistics out there to support whatever someone wants to try to push. Like the German police using malinois article...it was just one of the regions/states that has gone that way, not all of Germany. Yet all the skimmers (or people that just read the headline) were led to believe that the whole of Germany is going that way.

We have people on here that will tell you how KNPV titled malinois are the most used police dogs in the world. Yet someone that knows has stated only about 400 dogs a year get titled in KNPV, so there is no way mathematically that "most" of the police dogs in the world can come from KNPV. But we choose to ignore that as well when we need to tell people that the German Shepherds we breed are something special because "look at the rest of them" or better yet...when we aren't able to title in IPO so the easiest thing to do is bash IPO as a test that doesn't "prove" working ability and we want to claim our dogs have it without having to put in any real leg work.

Yeah, Bav - I, too, get a little tired of having to say so often that
for all the harping about more Malis being used 'everywhere',
all the UK Police forces still use (often breed their own) GSDs over
90% of the time for general purpose LE work. They are clearly not
afraid to experiment, as: A) there is a history of trying out a wide
variety of other breeds (inc. Giant Schnauzers, Dobes, Rotts, even
the odd Briard and Weimeraner); and B) they have open-handedly
switched to Labs, various Spaniels, & crosses of those, to make
up 2-dog teams for officers so they have specialised sniffer dogs at
their disposal as well as their GSD Patrol Dog.