training a badass dog - Page 1

bought this puppy from a woman who couldnot control him anymore, starting to get him back on track with obedience and bitework, dont know where we will end as he is hard and dominant, stubborn asshole but a challenge to get him on track for sure

https://youtu.be/EyQo7W2jc94
 

Is he handler aggressive? How's his Obedience...Does he want to follow or does he always want to be in charge?
How old is this dog?

~Bob~

hi Bob he is 18 months no agression on me yet as Im mentally stronger now, but he dominates my wife and son, they cannot take him from kennel, he is getting well on obedience but in obedience training keeping his eye on people approaching me, no easy project LOL

Yep duke like him he looks to be a lot of dog. Doesn't look to have handler aggression very focused on what on front of him looks dominant big and strong grips are hard and very full . Have a lot of fun

Duke , from where does this stubborn , this dominance and the inability of this dog to be controlled or exhibit self control come from . To anyone reading this thread , if you do not understand the dog , understand where the behavior and temperament originates from - don't try to work the dog.

A dog this advance in training . Why does not the video show the out , assuming the dog can and will out? .. the impression I get is the control factor goes so deep within the dog that odds are he does not and WON'T out. If i am correct , this is going to be a monumental task to get this dog to reliably out . I could be off track here , possibly , but I think not.

IMOp , my instinct tells me from observation that there will always be a control issue with this dog for I have the sense that the control problem has it's origins deep in the genetics. I get the IMPRESSION this is deeply genetically related , given the combination of your description too , stubborn , dominant and perhaps other attributes , possibly dire unrelenting instinct to posses and the willingness and ability to do what it has to to posses. If you did not know this lady and dog prior. then , in my opinion, you have the reason why she no longer has this dog and you now do . Hope the best for you both .

centurian, this is second time biting since I have him, why show no out, because he was not trained to do so yet,
It would be stupid to start to fight him now while in high drive/agression so I wait with that ,till he is clean(er) in obedience, and the command OUT is planted in his brain well, as im doing that now on a ball with him, when obedience is much better and out on ball is clean, only than will I start to implement command OUT in bitework

after a strong dog is allowed so much and having things his way all the time it is hard to tell to what level of control I will get him, time will tell

Hard, dominant, stubborn male + inexperienced, weak owner raising the dog = this is the result

I like this male, he shows strong, deep grips, is not afraid to go into the decoy, doesn´t care about the stick, and Duke is able to handle and correct him.

This male seems to be clear in the head - he may never become a "pet", but he is worth a second chance for sure.

Just read your last post, Duke - good plan 

Duke
I read many of your posts. So let me take a minute to mention that say you have written some most wonderful things . I have seen some of your videos with very nice dogs . Sincerely , Thank you for sharing.
From the perspective of " always** trying to better myself " , for 30+ years this is how I observe every dog.
Again , I wonder :

IMOp you have a dog with deplorable past training, not your fault. This dog has been trained without balancing it's motivation with self control. So , WHY , that is what I ponder. WHY. The dog is like this for a reason [s]. My instinct is this is more than ' the dog was never taught'. My instinct is that his was not so easy from the get go , or amenable to teach this dog certain concepts. IMOp this is not a good dog. Susie , clear in the head ? What does that mean ? Do you mean the dog knows what it is doing , or you mean it didn't kill anyone? The expression ,' clear in the head ', exactly what are you trying to point out ? That is a generalized , diluted expression worthless to me.

" keeping his eye on people as they approach' - again makes me wonder. The dog looking at people, itself , does not make me think . What makes me think is : how literally and figuratively, is the dog looking at those people, what is the dog thinking as he looks , what is the dog feeling as he looks , and what motivations does the dog have or not have ? THAT is what is important IMOp. That is what I want to know and that is information I need to know in order to continue with this dog ! IMOp that is information that leads me to decide how I am going to do obedience , the out and other matters with this dog. That is just me. hen I train a dog , i say to myself " what is important" , and my answer is "EVERYTHING". And I take into consideration , the dog perspective in those respects to my family ! big time !! And a dog that has no regard for my family , I have IMOp , no use for. This is not . I repeat , this is not, a good dog by my standards , IMOp . You are a much much better man than I[ not meant sarcastically but stated with humility] , you are giving the dog a chance and for that - I , with sincerity , respect you personally for your efforts.

Duke we know , I know you are reasonably experienced too , that at this age , with that foundation , teaching an out with a ball is not synonomous with the dog learning an ' out ' on equipment with a person . One does not automatically transfer from one to the other. I have worked dogs as such. Those two are not the same context equated in the dog's head and , just a guess,in this dog , it won't be , nor will it ever be , if my impression is correct. Some trainers , later on , would go so far as using an e collar , but my instincts tell me that this still will not change reliably this dog successfully. And it won't be the best solution for the problem . Also , that will be compliance and not obedience. This dog , you try to control him will be a losing battle. Most dogs that are of his make up , we know to 'fight' for the out is only a losing proposition . I agree with you in that idea , about waiting and giving the dog some time .

I can't speak for anyone else , but an approach that i take is to get into the head of the dog so ,much , that he will be motivated to control himself to the optimal degree that he is genetically capable of. I put aside how I would go about doing this from a non confrontational , non pressure tact . But believe me , this would not have anything to do with a ball , a leash ,e collar , my hands or whatever. Duke , I am hoping for the dog's sake that I am 100% wrong about this. I sincerely do .

RE ' Always got things his way ' .We know that in the event of trying to change things, the first response of the dog is to keep doing with more intensity what has worked for him in the past. Again I am of hopes, that you can accomplish your goal, not so easy your task is.

Centurian, Duke will understand the meaning of "clear in the head" without problems....might be a language problem - in Europe everybody understands this term...

When Duke tells us a dog "keeps his eye on people when they approach" this means that he is talking about a dog checking out its surrounding, ready to act in case it´s necessary. Now it´s up to the handler to "explain" the dog that the handler makes the decisions, not the dog. Not all dogs are "social", but they need to be socialized ( big difference ).

"This is not a good dog" - Really? In that case just stay away from dogs of this kind - I like them, they just need proper training. These dogs are able to become great IPO, PP, or Police dogs, but in most cases no pets - different goals, different standards.