Blue shepherd? - Page 4

I think enviroga was telling me to get a malinois because I like the "olden" days. I could be wrong, but I think that's what the message was.

Olden days or not, I like the pups we have now. NO WAY, I'm going to Malinois for intensity. Don what kind of dog do you like? Prey monger, hard hard K-9 or ?

4pack I like a dog with excellent prey and defense drive. The dog should be balanced. I would prefer a dog to be hard, but not too hard. I want my corrections to mean something. I like aloof, but not anti-social. I want a full calm grip on the sleeve. Clear headed with great nerves. A nice structure without having a roach back. Big bone, broad head, and dark, rich pigment....Oh...and four legs would be nice too!

You can also go to www.articadogs.com She has a lot of different colors I've never seen before. I have seen a blue shepherd before in person. It was a pretty color, but it's just not right.

Hey all....I thought I would chime in with my two cents and with some information I have been researching at the Virginia Tech and VMRCVM libraries. First of all, GSDs do definetley carry for Blue, Liver and White...Blue occurs at the Dilution Locus and is recessive ('d' as opposed to 'D' which is full pigmentation) And liver occurs in a similiar way at the Black Locus ('b' as opposed to 'B' for black pigmentation). For whites there are different theories, though many people suggest it is at the Color, Intensity, Spotting, or maybe even the Extension Locus...But...there is lots and lots of books, studies, and articles written that do indeed back up the existance of these Genes in the GSD. Hec, some even carry for Brindle (exceedingly rare, but CH Donna V Allergeiligentor (b. 1924) and her son Igor of Ceara (b. 1927) (I believe this Came from Willis' book on GSD Genetics)) There was actually also a Blue Champion at one point in time...I didnt write down his name but I read it on Page 40 of Willis' book. And just in case anyone was wondering...none of these colors are any more likley to have diseases than the colored dogs...(and that is according to Willis, Spoenburg and Rothschild.) Hec...shepherds even carry for the Spotting gene...its what causes the Panda shepherd and in fact any white spotting seen on GSDs (at least I believe that is the case). And EnviroGA - up until yesterday I would have said yes they culled the whites...except I just pulled an article out of a 1924 edition of The Journal of Heredity and in an article on the History of the GSD I saw a white dog working in protection(his name was Stonihurst Bero). So I guess they werent all killed...and really...why would you kill any dog that has potential to be a good dog...I can understand altering them...but killing them? Thats pretty severe. The White Shepherd (which is now the BBS in FCI countries) is indeed descended from the GSD...in fact I do believe that German Shepherds that are imported to europe can be registered as BBS (though dont quote me on that). The original BBS was also a White German Shepherd exported to Switzerland named Lobo. And I thought I would mention one last thing...yes the gene pool is relativley small, but thanks to many of the breeders (all over the world) who are jumping through hoops and working their pants off there are a good deal of very genetically sound dogs of good temperment and breeding and also I do believe there are several breeders who breed their whites to their coloreds as long as the dogs are both good dogs (as far as conformation, genetics, temperment and work ethic). Sorry if this was alot...its just one of those subjects I have researched alot...but I am still learning about it. Thanks for reading :D ~Ceph

Hey Ceph, thanks for sharing your research. I was also reading up on that white spotting gene, and that Irish one, too. So, taking what's happened to the Boxer breedings, (suddenly half their profits are reduced attempting to produce the preferred, current fancy) and that exclusion further reduces an already closed genepool. If begs the question: Why can't we all just get along? I love all the colors! lol ~Deb

Heere Heere!!! I plan on having Whites and Colored Dogs when I get set up (however many years in the future that ends up being (I am an aspiring breeder)) and I think they are all wonderful..and no one dog is any better than another!

I have seen a blue GSD puppy already. They have got the colour of shiny steel. They appear in litters, where the pigementation of the parents is very weak. It is not correct, that they are as healthy as the normal pigmented puppies, because the absence of pigment is an indicator for the probability of some diseases. (e.g. the probability of being deaf). Most of the breeders are killing them and don`t tell anybody that they have such puppies. The one I have seen was from a friend of mine, who didn`t want to kill its puppy, but it did on the 3rd day after the birth. She told me, that she had one puppy before, which had "only" blue legs. It survived. In the age of 9months you cannot tell anymore that it was "blue" as a puppy. But it had a white glimmer on the fur. There is a new own breed in Austria which is based on the "blue" GSD and is called "Blaue Alpinschäferhunde". The white GSD are not in the SV and are also a own breed, namely the "Swiss GSD" and since 1999 in the FCI. I hope I could have helped you Greetings from Austria

Sue - According to several very well known authors you would be incorrect. Malcolm B. Willis mentioned that it was not linked to any kind of lethal disorder...another author mentioned that the blue allele may cause a poor hair coat...but that research was from dobermans...and I think if the Blue allele was as linked to deafness and other problems as people say than breeds like the weimarner and the kerry blue terrier would be in alot of trouble. But hey...people used to say many things about the problems with the whites, that were later proven to be untrue...perhaps it is the case here? I think maybe a study is in order :p I have read that the blue does tend to darken with age, and it does appear in the same patterns (it is simple recessive) but regardless the dog will always have the blue leather and the lighter eyes....similiar to the livers which have brown leather and And the whites were once accepted into the SV...I believe before 1935. I have to look it up...but I have talked to people about White German Shepherd Breeders in Germany...and I do recall someone mentioning that they know of at leats one that wasnt a BBS breeder....I will have to look it up when I go to Europe this summer and winter. Now - if someone could produce some data or research (preferable before 1990) that counteracts what I have written...I would *love* that..because mainly I am interested in getting the whole story...I just need concrete data (research and journals and the like...websites are decent if they have citations...but tend to be less objective.) before I believe anything. Hope some of this was useful ~Cate

I'm not a breeder so have no strong feellings one way or another about anyone else using white GSD in a breeding program. In other breeds where white is also carried recessively as masking gene, there is a risk of losing pigment when using whites for breeding. As you know, white is not a color, it is the absence of color. My problem with white GSD's is that a solid white tending dog is not desired in any breed where snow falls; we have already discussed that on this board a few months ago. Using a white for breeding is using a dog that would be DQ'd from both the AKC ring and the SV ring.