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by babbles24 on 16 January 2017 - 18:01
What temperament attributes would you like to see while selecting a family protection dog prospect? Either a puppy or a green dog..
And by FPD i mean a dog that will be able to do protection work but at the same time will be able to chill out and enjoy family life. Clear headed that will be able to go everywhere without being a liability.
Safe around kids and strangers, i dont mind aloof and disinterested..
Any breeders in Germany, Netherlands or Czech Republic, you would recommend?
And by FPD i mean a dog that will be able to do protection work but at the same time will be able to chill out and enjoy family life. Clear headed that will be able to go everywhere without being a liability.
Safe around kids and strangers, i dont mind aloof and disinterested..
Any breeders in Germany, Netherlands or Czech Republic, you would recommend?
by Chaz Reinhold on 17 January 2017 - 03:01
Well, if we're talking pups it is a crapshoot even if you know the parents.
If we're talking a young adult, you look for what you stated.
What was the question?
If we're talking a young adult, you look for what you stated.
What was the question?
by babbles24 on 17 January 2017 - 10:01
How do i identify what i stated??
by Gustav on 17 January 2017 - 12:01
I don't know that you can, it takes a vast amount of experience in breeding, knowing the stock, reading pups and understanding dog behavior and causation of behavior.
I have been either incredibly lucky or on point in picking out pups for myself and others. I know breeders that are very successful at projecting what pups in their litters will become.....not so much for the majority of consumers.
by Hundmutter on 17 January 2017 - 12:01
What are you doing to look at stock already ? Have you visited Clubs ? Shows ? Breeders ?
Did you not say on another thred that potential buyers should do their research ? Get your eyes and hands on a variety of dogs; talk to people. If you are around adult dogs where you like what you see, you can find out what lines they are from and how they are bred (as well as how they are trained, and how responsive they are to their training), start to get an idea of who is breeding the stock dogs come from that you like. and find out who is planning to produce future puppies from those lines, or who might have juveniles to sell that they have run on. You do not have to find a 'broker' or a professional Trainer 'cold', you can get word of mouth recommendations. Take your time. You don't have to have your new dog 'yesterday'. Good luck in your search.
Did you not say on another thred that potential buyers should do their research ? Get your eyes and hands on a variety of dogs; talk to people. If you are around adult dogs where you like what you see, you can find out what lines they are from and how they are bred (as well as how they are trained, and how responsive they are to their training), start to get an idea of who is breeding the stock dogs come from that you like. and find out who is planning to produce future puppies from those lines, or who might have juveniles to sell that they have run on. You do not have to find a 'broker' or a professional Trainer 'cold', you can get word of mouth recommendations. Take your time. You don't have to have your new dog 'yesterday'. Good luck in your search.
by babbles24 on 17 January 2017 - 14:01
@Hundmutter, I don't think you understood the aim of my question. Let me clarify..
1: I would like to eliminate the huge pool of breeders down to the ones who produce stock that fits my needs.
2: Once i start visiting the above breeders how do i assess the dog so i don't go by the breeder's opinion only.
And the reason i want to have my own opinion as well is:
a)look at the vast majority of ads here, all the dogs seem to be suitable for pet,sport,police etc, to me that is sales talk.
b) you never know i might see a dog on a classified from an individual or rescue..
I can assure you im in no rush and i have done enough research, i have found some very reputable breeders but they have a good track record in competition dogs, not sure a dog with such a high drive would be a good fit. Let me throw some names and tell me what you think
In netherlands:tiekerhook, in germany: mohnwiese, in czech republic:jinopo and aritar bastet
1: I would like to eliminate the huge pool of breeders down to the ones who produce stock that fits my needs.
2: Once i start visiting the above breeders how do i assess the dog so i don't go by the breeder's opinion only.
And the reason i want to have my own opinion as well is:
a)look at the vast majority of ads here, all the dogs seem to be suitable for pet,sport,police etc, to me that is sales talk.
b) you never know i might see a dog on a classified from an individual or rescue..
I can assure you im in no rush and i have done enough research, i have found some very reputable breeders but they have a good track record in competition dogs, not sure a dog with such a high drive would be a good fit. Let me throw some names and tell me what you think
In netherlands:tiekerhook, in germany: mohnwiese, in czech republic:jinopo and aritar bastet
by Bavarian Wagon on 17 January 2017 - 14:01
Where are you located? If you're truly looking for a protection dog, I would just stay local so that you can actually see the dogs.
You've thrown out the "who's who" of kennel names. Doesn't take much research to find those. If you're looking for a family pet first, there's little reason to import from those kennels. If you like those bloodlines they're readily available in the United States.
A dog that can be a family dog first and also a protector will be heavily influenced by the type of training you do with it.
You've thrown out the "who's who" of kennel names. Doesn't take much research to find those. If you're looking for a family pet first, there's little reason to import from those kennels. If you like those bloodlines they're readily available in the United States.
A dog that can be a family dog first and also a protector will be heavily influenced by the type of training you do with it.
by CSW on 17 January 2017 - 15:01
I don't know where you live but I would highly recommend von Hartwin kennels. I have two dogs from them and they are wonderful dogs and would fit the description of what you are looking for. That being said, these dogs are super intelligent and do like to work but you said protection so I'm assuming you will do IPO? My dogs go everywhere and are completely trust worthy around people of all kinds. I look for a puppy that is engaged, interested in me and what I'm doing, not skittish, curious, and they have to have that spark of intelligence in their eyes (you will know this when you see it). A great breeder will be able to take your description and match you to a puppy/dog. This was the cases when we were looking for my husbands competition dog. I sent a detailed description of my husbands personality when dealing with dogs, what he was going to do with the dog, and we got a perfect match. He has a von Sontausen dog. Find a breeder that actually works with their dogs, not one that buys titled dogs to breed. The hands on breeders will have a much better bead on what they see in a puppy.
Best of luck on your search!
Best of luck on your search!
by Hundmutter on 17 January 2017 - 17:01
Well speaking personally Babbles, which is all I can do, if I were in Holland I would happily go for a Tiekehook dog; if I were in Germany I would be willing to consider Mohnwiese. (Also in Germany I'd seriously look at Von Arlett). People here in the UK that I know well have had either dogs from those kennels, or immediate decendents of dogs from both, and those dogs have all been fine in both temperament and structure; because of what those people were doing with their dogs (Security work in the first case; UK Show scene in the second) I've seen several dogs go through their lives, or part of their lives, successfully doing what their owners wanted. But these were not high-scoring 'podium' dogs in top competition, (either 'work'/sports, or just beauty shows) they were just nice specimens of the breed, good at & for what they did in a day-to-day way. I think Gustav is largely right: no matter what you think you are looking at, or what advice you get from the breeder, so much depends on both your experience, your needs, and fate. You sometimes gotta kiss a few frogs before you identify a prince !
Generally speaking, the kennels you mention are established and successful at what they do, so you won't find much negative on them while doing research; but that also puts them in the bracket where you probably pay a bit more, for their reputation, and may have to put your name down well in advance for a pup, if that's the way u go. I'm pretty sure Jinopo will have a green juvenile or two available, judging by what is said on PDb, (as well as advertised),but as I have never had / met dogs from there I would not presume to recommend. On balance if you can find local kennels where you can meet the dogs for real, I'd always go that way, no matter how established the reputation of a kennels from further away, from which you'd need to ship, unseen. I don't think that only applies to dogs which are going to be protection trained. That way you eradicate 'middlemen', airport stress, some of the possible difficulties about missing paperwork, etc ... but it is always still a crap-shoot. FWIW I think it is worth paying the 'going rate' or a little more, rather than trying to get a dog 'on the cheap' from some breeder nobody ever heard of - but that is the advantage of visiting shows & clubs, to hear whose names keep coming up in the right way. (And who gets talked about for the wrong reasons, too !) Not saying by any means that there are no small 'hobby' breeders who you cannot get a good dog from; but someone who has walked the walk a while, and knows what they are talking about with the dogs (in general - not just what factors will make you buy a puppy from them) is more likely to be investing time & money in doing their own e.g. IPO Training, all the health tests, good puppy-raising, etc. and not cutting corners.
Over & above this, I don't think anyone can give you a simple list of precise points to look out for, or temperament tests to do. Much depends on whether you are looking with a 'sensible' eye at whether what you are seeing seems to fit YOUR requirements - there isn't a way anyone else, especially online from a distance, can do those bits for or with you ! We could write books full of those things - but they have already been written down by other people, as you will be aware, having done some 'homework' on GSDs and other working dogs. The only bit of general advice I CAN give you - and I'm sure this is in those books, too - is make sure you can say 'No' if what you are looking at does NOT seem to meet all your requirements;
do not fall for the "Oh the dog is in such a bad place, I have to buy it, to get it out of there" syndrome; people who do that simply make space for another young dog to be bred and sold from the same abysmal place.
Generally speaking, the kennels you mention are established and successful at what they do, so you won't find much negative on them while doing research; but that also puts them in the bracket where you probably pay a bit more, for their reputation, and may have to put your name down well in advance for a pup, if that's the way u go. I'm pretty sure Jinopo will have a green juvenile or two available, judging by what is said on PDb, (as well as advertised),but as I have never had / met dogs from there I would not presume to recommend. On balance if you can find local kennels where you can meet the dogs for real, I'd always go that way, no matter how established the reputation of a kennels from further away, from which you'd need to ship, unseen. I don't think that only applies to dogs which are going to be protection trained. That way you eradicate 'middlemen', airport stress, some of the possible difficulties about missing paperwork, etc ... but it is always still a crap-shoot. FWIW I think it is worth paying the 'going rate' or a little more, rather than trying to get a dog 'on the cheap' from some breeder nobody ever heard of - but that is the advantage of visiting shows & clubs, to hear whose names keep coming up in the right way. (And who gets talked about for the wrong reasons, too !) Not saying by any means that there are no small 'hobby' breeders who you cannot get a good dog from; but someone who has walked the walk a while, and knows what they are talking about with the dogs (in general - not just what factors will make you buy a puppy from them) is more likely to be investing time & money in doing their own e.g. IPO Training, all the health tests, good puppy-raising, etc. and not cutting corners.
Over & above this, I don't think anyone can give you a simple list of precise points to look out for, or temperament tests to do. Much depends on whether you are looking with a 'sensible' eye at whether what you are seeing seems to fit YOUR requirements - there isn't a way anyone else, especially online from a distance, can do those bits for or with you ! We could write books full of those things - but they have already been written down by other people, as you will be aware, having done some 'homework' on GSDs and other working dogs. The only bit of general advice I CAN give you - and I'm sure this is in those books, too - is make sure you can say 'No' if what you are looking at does NOT seem to meet all your requirements;
do not fall for the "Oh the dog is in such a bad place, I have to buy it, to get it out of there" syndrome; people who do that simply make space for another young dog to be bred and sold from the same abysmal place.
by susie on 17 January 2017 - 18:01
" Family protection dog prospect..."
"Family dog"
playful
not dominant
stable nerves
high threshold
low to medium preydrive
"Protection dog"
alertness
lower threshold
at least some territorial defense
I´d go with the family dog, in case your family wants a pet ( children ), and you want the dog to interact with your family on a regular basis. Most dogs will start to "guard" their comfort zone ( home ) sooner or later, and in "normal life" a barking German Shepherd Dog normally will be more than enough.
Wife and children will be around the dog all the time, but how often do you meet violent criminals willing to deal with a GSD ?
"Family dog"
playful
not dominant
stable nerves
high threshold
low to medium preydrive
"Protection dog"
alertness
lower threshold
at least some territorial defense
I´d go with the family dog, in case your family wants a pet ( children ), and you want the dog to interact with your family on a regular basis. Most dogs will start to "guard" their comfort zone ( home ) sooner or later, and in "normal life" a barking German Shepherd Dog normally will be more than enough.
Wife and children will be around the dog all the time, but how often do you meet violent criminals willing to deal with a GSD ?
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