Do you think he will bite for real? - Page 9

there is a big difference between a dog with uncontrollable agression, that will also attack his handler, and a dog with focussed or directed agression,
There are many good dogs who are safe around their own people, perfectly controlable, but not are sporty dogs that will only bite sleeve or suit
dogs that are fear biters or total idiots that attack everything are extremes and people allways like to present extremes to make a point

dogs that will bite for real are wanted and needit in the real world and these will not wait for the bad guy to present an arm to place a full and calm grip
This is nothing more than reality and maybe hard to accept for the pet level people and breeders but this definately is a very real aspect of the breed

We had a dog like that too. He was shipped to the US for a reason and used for the exact same purpose for a reason. Because he wasn't a safe dog and my father wanted him gone.
Again, these dogs are needed in some capacity, but not the norm. There are dogs that are specifically bred for this with Mals and Dutchies, but also in a very specific capacity.
I know Mikes dogs. I know Mike, he knows my dogs to (there is a video somewhere with my female. I've got a female that he sold to a close friend (which is one of my Mentors stateside) and one of his retired breeding bitches just retired locally and comes to our club now (Misty). I know quite a few dogs out of his breedings that are here locally. Not a single one of his dogs are unsafe. He's very adamant about having safe and social dogs. I also know a dog of his breeding that he considers Navy Seal Quality and again, NOT an unsafe dog but a committed dog. That dog is so social, clear headed and safe that a Kid could ride on him.

For breeding, yeah, sometimes you need an extreme dog but overall, those dogs are not the norm.

so then what he writes about Arco is false? In more than one place he mentions that Arco is NOT safe with strangers.

I still remember the dog I had last summer. He was really scary. Very high drive with no off switch. Had a bite history , dominant and aggressive as well. I had him in the basement and as soon as I went to him he would be all over me taking away the food ( raw meat ) I had in my hand without any kind of reservation or backing off . Just literally taking it. I suspected if I struggled with him he would have bitten me. And he did end up biting the breeder a few days later. He was from old WGWL ( Eros, Sagus Busecker Schloss ,Racker, Drigon,  Burka Haus Himpel, and I think a few Korbelbachs, Bungalow  and Stollhammer dogs ). 

He was definitely dangerous.

erbe you are contradicting yourself, if you need extreme dog sometimes, why is that and where do we find such dog if they are unwanted ?

I never said that what he writes about Arco is false it's his dog. I said that I have never met an unsafe dog out of his breedings and that I know a lot of his dogs. He KNOWS how to utilize dogs for breeding, He knows how to breed dogs. Don't put words into my mouth. Just because Arko is unsafe himself, doesn't necessarily mean he will produce dogs that are not safe with strangers. Sociability is very important to him, last I've known.

No, I'm not contradicting myself. There are two type of dogs. Defensive piece of crap dogs that need a bullet, and dogs that are extremely dominant, even possess handler aggression (the whole nine yards). IF you know how to utilize these type of dogs, good for you.
And then there is the third type of dog that Mithuania explained above that went into a warehouse situation. We had one of those too, but it was only one that I remember. He went to the US.

I don't know how much more clear I have to be.

hhmmmm there are two types of dogs...................but then there is a third type , you are missing the normal dogs with good civil agression, which is the main group of good and social dogs,
again, you only point out the extremes to make a point

lots of BALANCED german shepherds about that will bite every bodypart but are social to his owners/trainers

I think it would be a mistake to take the neverending hearsay of Mithuna as veracity. That warehouse story is the stuff of urban legends.

I'm just laughing about trying to pull Mikes dogs in to this. Man, if there is one thing that sticks out about dogs out of his breedings, and that goes for every single one I've met and that is in the double digits by now, it's sociability, commitment and extreme possession rather than aggression.

In any controlled setting, the dog should always bite where it's supposed to bite. In a life and death struggle that is probably going out the window but a KNPV dog that had two years of Targeting training and setting grips... that dog doesn't just bite your face. That dog is conditioned to bite where he's supposed to bite! So much talk about KNPV dogs on here... and people are like "Man, that decoy shouldn't expose his face or hands like this." how the hell do you think these dogs are trained. These dogs can't be out there killing people by shredding faces either. And I'm not the one that brought these extremes up. I posted a video about a committed dog, my dog, on a KNPV style helper thats been building dogs for more than just over a decade.
 

I am struggling to work out what Mithuna thinks was achieved in the case of the dog 'found with a hand in its mouth' ? Supposing there is any truth in the story in the first place (as Bee says, that one could very well be urban legend). And the owner was out one - probably quite expensive - dog.

Presumably the owner of the warehouse would not have got 'revenge', since the dog was found with a hand, & not the whole bled-out body of the intruder ? Even in pain, missing one hand, the intruder might still have got away with some loot, since the dog was killed, therefore such a dog is no guarantee of a successful outcome ? Might stop someone b&e' ing another time, but then it just might mean they come with more weaponry, to kill the next dog before it can bite them.

I think you were just repeating this story for effect, to get a further reaction from BE; if so, shame on you.

She has my sympathy, I'm not trying actively to make it worse for her. Of course when she is dealing with dogs that have to be pts because they have attacked people, she feels angry & upset.

Let me put another point: those of us who have actively opposed Dangerous Dog laws have almost all always taken the position that Breed Specific Legislation is wrong. It is wrong because many of the dogs who have killed are not APBTs or mixes thereof. (Or Japanese Tosas, or any of those breeds hardly anyone has heard of but which find themselves Banned). Because ANY dog, given the right circumstances, can be just as deathly as a Pit. Some of the reasons for that may be genetic, either by breeding FOR a certain sort of temperament, or failing to breed AGAINST it, OR some inherited/mutated aberation; but they always have to go hand-in-hand with human mismanagement, of one kind or another. And as far as I can ascertain, ALL legislation (with the noble intent of saving children's lives) FAILS miserably to deal with the human aspect.

Some of the stuff I'm reading about where a LE or military dog should bite is contrary to my forty years with these type dogs. Most LE dogs will bite the closest body part available in a real conflict. I'm talking from training and using said type dogs in real life, not what some close friend who is LE person told me.