Watered Down sport?? - Page 15

Forgot to mention:
Yes, Kitkat, you must be doing something right...

Once again back to topic:
Cut, for me the sport is not "watered down" in case the handler/owner of a dog trains according to breed genetic traits = is able to see the genetical advantages and disadvantages of his own dog compared to others.

IPO is still able to tell you everything you want to know about a dog - be it hardness, courage, fighting drive, or be it willingness to please, ability to solve problems, and so on...

It´s not the fault of IPO rules that people try ( and are partially able ) to circumvent proof of genetic traits. Those people either didn´t understand the reason of this test, or they simply don´t care.

In case of the intitial (IPO) test "points" don´t really matter, but the learning experience about the working abilities of someone´s own dog. Not everybody is the "perfect" handler/trainer, so points are not that important for evaluation of a dog - the training process in itself is important.

 susie

first there is difference between broker of family and showline dogs and broker of policedogs, the first is moving along past brokers, most people who have one dog for sale put it in FP, PDB and WD themselves and ask more money these days than brokers ever did, but that is another story in itself

Im talking policedogs and that works differently, worldwide vendors dont have time to to work trough 20 people and locations to get a group of dogs for a certain goal/client therefore they work with people like me, who collect these dogs and make it possible for them to test and buy desired quality at one adress

The fact that raising a dog is cheaper in a certain country has nothing to do with the endprice they are asking, green dogs are expensive due to a shortage simple as that

finally I know the German police pay shit prices, its non realistic, german police will pay about € 1000 euro less per dog than vendors worldwide, let alone the price police worldwide pays, dutch police pays around €5000, almost double of german police

finally, the east european dogs will NEVER be to expensive for police as they are mostly NON pedigree and mixed breeds now and they will never be in demand by private people, that world will allways be ruled by a supplie and demand price, the breeders will continue to produce at price that vendors are willing to pay

 

 

 

They must have raised the amount they are going to spend on a dog then. Because most of the time you wouldn't get more than 1800 for a green dog from German Police.

2600 max, but they try to get cheaper all the time

Good post, Duke. That is my experiences with the world of LE procurement. All LE care about is if dog is capable and attainable. I far far more often see a dog not be attained by LE because of unsuitability or washout, rather than price.

I just sold 3 dog's to the airport police 2 Saturdays ago have all 3 ped as I breed them myself .pedigree not required once they can do the job pedigree is the last thing they care about . top end 3000€ per dog hip exray and all health separate

yogi there will be individuals selling all the time, also there will be pedigree dogs going there as well, and also K9 units will pay different prices, but we are talking about different/much larger numbers of dogs weekly/monthly also for large contracts

your airport police is not going to europe for three dogs and is very happy with the price you sold them for,and probably airportpolice will use them for detection only,correct me if wrong.

 but there are clients that buy 60 a month in europe or contracts for 450 dogs per year or more.

these buyers will not drive around USA or Europe to buy one here and three there

 

DUKE these particular 3 were sold for security but have sold A lot more this year in the late 20 and were all ready for any job same money as I said . Thi is only a hobby for me and I enjoy the challenge

Yes, pedigree doesn't matter. But pedigree is what gives value to the private/sport/breeder market all over the world, therefore, without a pedigree, the dog's only demand is driven by a single market, a market which not only knows more than the private sector, but also generally has less money to spend.

For example, you sold 3 dogs at 3000 euro at what, a year old? I sold an IPO prospect out of my own breeding with very good foundation in all three phases at 6 months old with hip and elbow prelims for $3500. That's probably the most the dog will be worth without a lot of extra work because you can get females with BH or even IPO1 for about $5000. They might not be the same quality, but the majority of people don't care and just care that the title is there so they can breed the dog ASAP and get their money back out of it. In the US, I can also get about $1000-$1500 a month for training a dog towards a title, or even pet training, so you see where the value isn't really there to keep a dog back and either keep it "green" or train it for some line of work. Considering that female could've easily been sold for $2000 at 8 weeks old, you see where there is little added financial value to keeping a dog back for a breeder that's not too concerned with placing dogs in working homes.

But that's where the dogs without pedigrees come in. Not only are the puppies worth close to nothing, the only time they have value is once they've proven they have working ability. At that point they're somewhere around $3000. They're rarely more because the private sector wants pedigrees in order to possibly make money off of puppies in the future and the biggest competitors, who many times have the big pockets, can't trial with a dog that doesn't have a pedigree which also pushes the price down. A good, young, male with a proper sport foundation that is showing exceptional drive and nerve for competition, is easily worth twice or more to the private sector than it is as a police prospect.