Watered Down sport?? - Page 16

I could have sold a 5 month old dog out of untitled parents (with pedigree) for 3000 to a highly competitive French Ring Guy because that pup had everything he was looking for. Instead he wen to a friend for 1400 who in turn got him for the Canadian Police.

I don't believe in overcharging and place always comes before price for me but that's kind of how we always did it.

I also don't believe in charging 2500 for puppies. Even if the parents are titled. I just can't justify it. Not knowing that I can get puppies for less than a 1000 Euros in Germany.

you are talking price first BW, im talking working ability first, and still your $3000 for a green dual non pedigree dog is still a couple of Thousand off, green dual purpose including shipping usa is closer to 5000

@ yogi, good to hear you are producing good dogs, the 3000 you are mentioning is about the right price for a single purpose dog, be it detection only or patrol only

Like I said earlyer, Im sure some breeders in the USA breed good stuff, both pedigree and non pedigree, suitable for LE, only not enough to match the numbers needit

Once again dukey...you're not the only importer of dogs to the United States. You also add your own markup to the dog. The dog itself from the person who raised it and did some sort of work, is $2000-$3000. If you deal straight through those people and cut out the useless middleman, you do just fine...I know plenty of trainers who do this.

There are plenty of breeders in the United States with the ability to produce working dogs, I've never denied that fact. We also have plenty of puppies which might not fill all the demand, but they could take a big chunk of it. The biggest issue when it comes to "real work" is that there is very little financial incentive to raise green dogs. You can pretty much get $1000-$1500 for a puppy out of untitled parents at this point. Titled...$2000+. So if you're breeding untitled dogs, you keep them back, hoping they turn into what you believe, and at the end of the year you might be able to sell one for $3000 if you know the right people and have the right connections. So a year of raising a dog, $50 a month for food + $400 or so for the necessary health tests, you've got the $1000 you've passed up when you didn't sell the dog, and the $900+ of upkeep to raise that dog, plus whatever you want to actually do with it and the value you put on the training of the dog. So at best, you're talking a $1000 gain over what you would've gotten if you had just sold the puppy at 8 weeks. That's just not enough reward when you consider there is also a risk of the dog having failing hips or just not having the drive/nerve to do the work. Then you've not only lost the potential $1000, but a year of work and all the costs on top of that.

People in this country don't just get dogs and "play" with them for a year in order to see what it would be. There isn't a huge supply of dogs that don't work out with a family for one reason or another and still somehow have the drive to do some sort of real work. We don't have people coming to IPO clubs or even bite clubs with dogs that end up being too much for them or getting developed in a way that won't work for the sport/hobby but will work for LE. Selling/rehoming a dog is extremely frowned upon until all possible training methods have been tried and even then the dog might still be stuffed in a kennel somewhere instead of sold to someone who could use it. I've also seen plenty of breeders get questioned when they decide to wash out a dog they've kept back and sell it to a police department or something similar...it's almost like "wow, didn't breed a good enough dog for the future" instead of understanding that while the dog might not be the breeding dog they wanted, it can still work well.

Bw them pups I held for a year main reason to see what I had . This was the mothers first litter. I showed some pictures here last year all pups did very well . So yes thes one 3000€ for s year. But mostly I can buy a 8 or 9 month old dog and have it in a new home by 12 months pp, airport, police,

Bav, Im not importer to US, Im exporter to US  and other countries

 keep on trying to defend the price you mentioned, sure you can buy one or two cheaper, but everybody involved knows the prices, you obviously dont know.

and misspelling my name doesnot bother me, but says loads about you

enjoy your day

Dukey...you obviously don't know what adding a y to a name in the English language means. You just obviously don't know. I will not give you the information about why you're wrong, you've just wrong, because I say so and you just have to know you're wrong and you obviously don't know. That is how we have discussions, we say someone is wrong and don't have to prove anything, they just obviously don't know. People must just believe us because we have all the right information and never elaborate on our statements but just say others are wrong and obviously don't know but we know everything.

For example:

Reasons why IPO is watered down that are not actually true, but it was said they are, so they must be:

gunshot out of BH (breedingrequirement)

sit out of motion out of BH

certain people(FCI/IPO) try to change different exercises from "drive "exercises to clean obedience exercises

Bark and hold

Apport,(not throwing the dumbell anymore)

taking stickhits out

points down for dog that acts not happy on trail (compulsion)

 

As an aside...if your belief that my "spelling mistake" (not actually a spelling mistake) says loads about me...what do your spelling mistakes and grammatical errors say about you?

my spellingmisstakes say Im not american born and raised LOL, hang on,

Sorry that I know the prices in he business I work in,

maybe there are people who believe someone who "heard someone mention" and "a friend told me "  , over someone that actually works in the business and deals with many companies worldwide

 

Yogi, I appreciate what you did. It's also something you did because you wanted to. If more people did so in the United States instead of worrying about making money, we'd have a lot more dogs ready for work. As it stands, no one really cares and pretty much 99% of people are motivated financially to be doing this. 

Bw for me I don't breed that often but when I do I hold back ad many as possible some for only 6 months some for a year pups to c what I have . This bitch I wont bree again as some pups were just family pet's she was spade and given to an order couple very good for them . The male I used is my male as well and I know he produces very good pup with the right female. so I have myself a nice Czech bitch who is at the moment showing to be an excellent example of the breed structure, nerves , grips, and a great switch in drive's . Hope next year to produce a very good litter she is now ipo 1 got that in may this year . I breed for every task iPo, pp ,patrol, dog, I want everything in my pups

Duke, I pretty well know how "selling to International police" at least in Germany works - I have been part of it for too long ( and although I learned a lot about dogs, I am not very proud of it ). I have been part of the German side, and I have been part of the American side for quite some while.

Find 5 - 15 good dogs, have a place to keep them for a couple of days/maybe 2 weeks ( always depends on the date the "client" will arrive, and on the quality of the single dog ), train them so they are used to yourself, the always repeated "surprises" used by the well known "clients", and the wider surrounding of the place you are keeping the dogs in.

When you (not you, but "someone" selling dogs ) pick up the dogs tell the owners your client doesn´t want to see them, because he wants to test the dog without "familiy" ( no bonds, just the dog ), and you don´t know for sure when he will arrive. Normally the owners say "okay" because they want to get rid of the dog ( and either have no connections on their own, or the dog does have disqualifying faults within SV ). In the worst case you have to pay for the dog, but with the contract: money back in case the dog fails....
the very best dogs you may buy "cash" - but only the ones you are sure about, cause after all you are no shelter.

The owner will never know about the price ( most often he / she would cry ) you got - strike!

The German broker made his money, the original owner got more money than from German police ( and, most importantly - doesn´t have to be afraid German police will send the dog back due to any problems - that´s always part of the contract between German police and dog owner - for 4 weeks the owner can´t be sure the dog is sold; and after all anything beyond € 2000 is more than great ).

Show lines are different - in former times ( up to the late eighties/ early nineties ) brokers visited our clubs on a regular basis, later on there already was a well working network of clubs/international buyers/breeders/exhibitors - at least for the "top dogs" no more brokers involved - flights are cheap, and taking back a dog as cargo is way cheaper than sending a dog on its own.

The "rest" either sold via internet, or per 2. class brokers. Pet quality in Germany, still worth some money in other countries...

Don´t tell me I am wrong again, I am talking for Germany, I have been involved for decades, and I know what I am talking about.