What to do with cull/wash out - Page 2

Perhaps I have misunderstood, but if the breeder has offered another pup as an exchange, you wouldn't be walking away empty handed. If you have no interest in tracking, then IPO is not for you, it;s a third of the program. How old is he and what is the pedigree?

Hundmutter; you've really misquoted me all over the place there. I don't turn just turn the dog out and leave him to roam the yard or something like that. I'm out there with him. And yea if something bangs into the fence he barks and charges - which is annoying. Also, I'm not really sure where you came up with my lack of commitment as a reason for the dog to wash out. We train once-twice a week with the club and another 2-3 times each and every day in short 10-15 min sessions. His obedience is fine. It's his bite work that's the problem and again it's because of his lack of prey drive. He's not out there having fun biting in prey he's stressed and biting out of defense.

Kaffirdog; yes you misunderstood. I'm not sure I want another pup from this breeder. I think I'd have a better chance of a higher prey drive dog from all Czech lines, rather than a ddr/Czech cross. I wasn't offered a refund. So if I returned the dog and said no thanks to another pup I'd be leaving empty handed. Also I'm ok with tracking as a part of ipo I lack the interest to ONLY do tracking and no bitework. I wouldn't be interested in training him for SAR for instance. That's all I meant by that.

Crusty
Maybe the pup is being pressured too much . This helper should be retreating from the initial display of stimulation by the pup and cement his dominance of the helper first. Seems like he is being pushed too quickly. ..it should be about the dog not about the helper.

Would be interested in seeing the dog's pedigree, please. If you're not comfortable posting it, can you at least tell us what lines he is from?

I just didn't want it to get traced back to the breeder and have them think I'm publicly bad mouthing them, which I'm not for the record.

Sire is progeny of Aron vom poppitz and xora vom marongstein

Dam is progeny of Gall Zla-mi and dagy derik

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts sunsilver

crustyolecrab, did I miss where you mentioned how old this pup is? It is well-established that the DDR lines tend to be slower to mature [mentally and physically] than other working lines, so perhaps you're looking for something too soon.

It's kind of funny that the very things you dislike about this dog--his defensiveness and suspicion--is the trait that so many others on this site have bemoaned has been nearly bred out of the breed. I must admit I do find it odd that you'd have selected a dog that's half DDR lineage, since those traits are also one of the main reasons cited for why someone gets a dog with DDR blood [in addition to the large, blocky head, stocky build, dense coat and rich color that are considered to be definitive for those bloodlines].

If the breeder is willing to take the pup back and will give you a replacement pup, but you don't want to go back to the same lines, you could always sell the replacement pup right away to try and recoup your original purchase price.

But based on what you've said about what you're looking for so far, I don't see why you got a pup in the first place--you'd have been better off with a young green dog that was already showing the level of prey you say you want. Plus you could eliminate the whole hip & elbow soundness crap shoot, too.

There's not much to choose from around my parts. I went and looked at one and they were nerve bags. Almost acted like they'd been beaten on. Hard to justify the time and expense going to look at these young dogs when they turn out that way. It's also a matter of $2000 vs the $5k and up I've seen for young imports from the better kennels and you still have no clue what you're getting. If only I had the kind of connections needed to feel secure with that kinda deal.

Why did I choose a 1/2 ddr dog? Well I was hoping to get balanced drives. Not just over the top prey drive. I was looking for a sport dog with a little bit of seriousness. That was the goal this breeder had in mind. I'm sure that litter produced some pups that fit that bill but mine went the other way.

He's a little over a year old now. I find myself in a bit of a conundrum there. do I wait to see if he matures into what want and risk losing that time on a better prospect, or do I call it quits now? I'm really tempted just to give him another 6 months, keep working on obedience and tracking, and introduce bite work again later on. Still waiting to see if sunsilver has some insight based on pedigree. The other person I checked with liked the pedigree overall but said there would be a wide range of pups in the litter. Not much uniformity.

Would your breeder allow you to work him another 6-12 months and if he still is not want you need allow you to trade.  Could be that some time is  what he needs.  I would ask

I like the idea of working him differently in the bite work it just may do the trick.

Do you have a hip elbow guarantee what age you may want to check that before you send him back.

 

 

Wow, okay, those are some pretty solid working lines! (I was expecting to maybe see show lines, given the problem you're having.)

It's hard to know what to say without seeing a video of your dog working. Hexe may be right: he needs more time to mature. I have a female from Czech lines (some West German) and DDR in the background. Up until she turned 3, she hardly barked at all! Okay, she DOES have a lot of prey drive, unlike your dog.

Given the lines your dog is from, I think it's quite possible one of the other pups in the litter may have more of what you are looking for. I can't believe pups from such solid working lines wouldn't be able to do IPO.

What have you done to try to bring out prey drive in your dog? If he's going into defense, maybe he's being pushed too hard? One of the biggest mistakes I see people making in IPO is over-correcting their dogs, and not allowing them to have fun and enjoy what they are doing. Prey and play drive are pretty much one and the same thing.

I was surprised too Sundilver. Seemed like a solid pedigree for what I wanted. However I had a good long talk with the breeder last night. The two others who are doing similar work with their dogs are seeing the same thing. Both of their trainers know the pedigrees well. All 3 of them (including the breeder) think the dogs aren't working in defense so much as taking the exercise "seriously". So they're thinking (the other two trainers) that they're biting "for real" and that's why it's not seeming like much fun. I guess this sorta makes sense, considering a detail I left out, and considering what another poster said about prey/play going hand in hand.

At home his prey drive is great for anything that moves. Flirt pole, tug, ball, frisbee, etc.


Considering all this I'm going to give it some more time. I'll keep working on obedience and tracking and let him mature some more and hopefully he'll be able to tell the difference between play and real.