What to do with cull/wash out - Page 3

Keep in mind, too, that behind his 'Czech' mama is a fair amount of DDR lineage as well, so in truth you've got more than half DDR genetics in the combination.

Crusty
These type of dogs tend to take the threatening approach of a stranger very seriously and really wants to bite. If I were your trainer I would allow the dog to start with his natural tendency but immediately switch to prey instead of a forced confrontation. For now your bite work can simply be activation of the dog and then retreat by the decoy. This exercise can be extremely gratifying yo the dog.

That's true hexe but as I understood it I thought the older ddr lines had a fair amount of prey drive where as the newer ones had lower prey. It's also said that the newer ddr dogs are soft, especially to the handler. I don't really know much about the dogs on the sires side. The newer ones anyway. Do you guys have anything specific on any of them?

Hexe is right, there is an awful lot of DDR blood in the pedigree. One thing I've heard about the DDR dogs is they are slow to mature, and tend to be more serious than most.

My female shares some of the sire's lines: Cordon An Sat, many Pohranicni straze dogs, and linebred on Frankie Anrebi, with quite a few other Anrebi dogs in her pedigree. Her closest DDR ancestors are Neuman's Jim and Lord in the 6th generation, so hard to make a good comparison.. but...

She's handler soft, and very anxious to please. I rarely use anything other than verbal corrections. I didn't see anything in the way of defensive behaviour from her until she turned 2, then she began to bark more, and scared the c**p out of me one night, when she went off on my mother, who got up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night while I was visiting her. It was just a warning though - she'd stationed herself on guard outside my bedroom door. Mom's a dog person, so she understood!

The decoy started her in prey using a flirt pole and a tug, then went to an adult sleeve not long after that. Everything was escape bites at first - if the decoy didn't keep moving, she'd turn herself inside out trying to get to him, and get tangled in the line!

Escape bites build the confidence, of course - dog barks, decoy runs away.
She's definitely equipment oriented - one day she went up to the sleeve when it was lying on the ground, sniffed it and wagged her tail!    She's best buddies with the decoy when he's not wearing a sleeve.

Wish we could get Gustav in here to comment. He knows working lines backwards and forwards, and has been working with them for around 40 years!
 

“Newer” DDRs. Just reading that shows the commercialization and the state of breeding GSDs.

It is a fairytale based description!

Sunsilver; your insight has been very helpful and interesting. I'm not sure of the terms but are escape bites when they give the sleeve after a bite? Or do you mean as they're retreating from the bark? The first we've done. When the sleeve is off he immediately returns his focus to the decoy. In fact, the detail I didn't mention before, was that it took a good bit of work to get him to target the sleeve. I thought he was just an idiot at first, but after talking to the breeder it dawned on me that he's fighting the man not the sleeve. Just as a side note, gall, Tom z ps, etc are on dam side. Ddr herding and tracking lines are on dads side. Idk that it makes a difference but the critique I got from a member who's well respected for his knowledge in pedigrees says it's best that way. Ddr sire over Czech dam.

If you look up the pedigree for dagy derik how far back is it before the ddr dogs start to show up?

Beetree; id love for you to elaborate on that thought. It seems to be common thought that's there's an "old" and "new" ddr. I filled in the blanks assuming that meant that the "new" ddr dogs arent as good as "old" because of the desire for big bones, big heads, and black sable becoming a fad for nonworking homes. Cash hungry breeders put $ and physical characteristics before working ability and (thanks to an already small gene pool) trashed the line. I could (and probably am) wrong so I'd like to hear it from you.

Escape bite is when the decoy runs away from the dog, and the dog hits the sleeve from behind. It's the first bite for the IPO 1 test, because it's the least threatening for the dog.

You obviously have a really serious dog there, if he focuses on the decoy and not the sleeve. Please be careful!

I have to confess I got a bit confused when looking at the pedigrees as to which was dam's line and which was sire's!

I'm sorry to contradict your friends, but genetically it makes NO DIFFERENCE which parent is Czech and which is DDR! That is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard! The pups get 50% of their genes from the sire, and 50% from the dam. However, some dogs have what's known as 'greater prepotency' which means a greater ability to pass their best characteristics on to their offspring. This can be true for either males or females, but it's more noticeable with the males because they produce a much larger number of offspring

Most Czech lines go back to DDR dogs at some point. Here's how to find it for yourself. Click on the "Pedigree search" bar on the left of the screen, and enter the dog's name. At the top of the pedigree you will see the number of generations the search will show. (Default number is only 3) Click on the number '7', which is the maximum the program is able to show. The dogs at the far right of the screen may be cut off, but if you scroll to the bottom, and put your mouse pointer on the grey bar, you can slide the window over to reveal them. Here's Dagy's seven generation pedigree.   The DDR dogs first pop up in the 3rd generation, on the dam's side,with Gitti vom Kornersee.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=652987-dagy-derik

Edit: what Beetree is referring to is the DDR ceased to exist when the Berlin wall fell in November of 1989, and Germany was no longer split into east and west. The former DDR dogs were accepted back into the SV, with all their descendants being eligible for SV registration. However, some breeders who are lacking in scrupules are still using DDR as a marketing ploy, even though the dogs are long dead.

Oh I've been all through the pedigree I just dont always know which dogs are ddr and which aren't unless it's blatantly obvious. I don't believe I've ever expanded gitti's pedigree tho, and must've just breezed over her. Almost immediately I recognized the kennel name when I just looked. I see alf vom kornersee in a lot of ddr pedigrees. I had been attributing his seriousness to Tom, cordon, and ori. Those three have been pointed out to me as dogs that bring hardness and agression to their progeny - so even tho it's pretty far removed I was thinking some of that made it to my pup. I don't recall exactly what but someone told me something about the venusina sopka dogs too. Perry, I think, and I believe Henry is part of dagy's pedigree (not sure how he relates to perry tho) maybe it's the ddr shining thru tho. I'm glad I came here now tho. I went from trying to figure out how to get rid of him to having an interest in seeing how he matures. He probably just needs more time for his mind to catch up with some of his natural instincts.

Crusty, they ain't DDR dogs unless the pedigree SAYS 'DDR'! Even if the sire and dam are DDR, progeny born after 1990 will be with some other registry, because the DDR stopped existing after the official reunification of Germany in 1990

Your dog is from 'DDR lines', and can no way be considered a DDR dog. They don't exist anymore, though there are quite a few people out there who are trying to find and breed dogs with the old DDR lines in their ancestry.

Whoops, I think I skimmed right past your edit. Reading that I understand what you guys mean. What do you refer to them as then? Do you just call them East German working lines?

I know there's a guy on alpine k9, hans I believe, who talks about the 5 or 6 families of gsd and categorizes their traits based on those families or lines (whichever is the proper way of saying it) my dam is 6th line - going back to cir vtrovskey doliny (spelling may not be correct) and the sire is 2nd line - hettel v uckermark. So is that a more accurate way to attribute certain traits to the sire and others to the dam?