Are protection dogs more dangerous then untrained one? - Page 6

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Jessejones

by Jessejones on 08 October 2018 - 23:10

Joan says:
„He only needs to take care of me and mine here at home“...etc.

Me:
True! There is a difference between PP and LE dogs. For example, a LE dog might have to jump through a car window to get to the perp. But probably never a pp dog.

Story time-
Last week I heard my dog barking hair-raisingly deep and loud at something in the front of my property, while I was on the back acre clearing some woods, so I knew something was up. Joan I only have 3 acres, so not as far as your 80!, but still quite a ways away for me to run at my age.

Just a few minutes before this happened, the dog was with me, but I guess he heard something and felt he need to check it out. So here I am, running and jumping over logs, ( actually more like a slow grunting climb-over...) to get to the front of the property and I see my dog doing a perfect bark and hold, facing a huge 12 ft high and wide bush!

When I get closer, I see the dog is blocking a wee crawl-into entrance into the bushes that leads to a little area inside the bushes with a telephone maintance box, and crouched in that 4x4 sqft area was a shaking telephone repair guy who could‘nt get out. No one has ever taught my 15 mo Wgsd to do a bark and hold. It just came naturally. So I called him to me, and let the guy climb out. I hope I don‘t get a letter from the phone company or the county with a complaint, that‘s all I need!
Anyway, my point is that a lot of this behavior is natural. And truthfully, I don‘t really know why so many families are looking for a „protection“ dog and willing to spend 5 to 15K for a so called PP dog. Where are all the dangers? Do we imagine them because of all the TV shows depicting these scary situations? Are our imaginations getting the best of us?

Maybe in a few places...maybe if I lived in a wealthy compound in South Africa or Kenya or other places like in South America....(all beautiful places, but frankly can be dangerous). But here in the USA, I‘ve never felt really afraid or in danger. But having said that, I do like having him by me, just in case. But don‘t feel to need to train him in „protection“ for 8K. But that’s just me.

One thing I would be concerned about is getting pulled over while driving for whatever reason, and the dog got aggressive with simple barking through the window towards the LE officer. That scenario scares me...some officers would not bat an eye to shoot the dog. Maybe for good reason...maybe not though.


1Ruger1

by 1Ruger1 on 08 October 2018 - 23:10

Jesse~ I always carried  a muzzle in my car for just that reason. I was concerned about the possibility of being pulled over for a speeding ticket or getting involved in an accident of some type. I figured having a muzzle on hand would be in the best interest of my dog,,,
It’s hard to justify shooting a muzzled animal.
I’d like to think so anyway 🙁


Jessejones

by Jessejones on 08 October 2018 - 23:10

Good idea Ruger.
That is IF the officer lets you go into the glovebox or under the seat to pull out the muzzle.
Yeah, that is scary! I know I would take a bullet or a taser for my dogs, out of sheer stupidity probably. I would reflexively shield them.

So to answer the original question...of course a trained dog is better than an untrained dog...trained in anything. And trained to stop barking and platz in the case above.
For PP, yes, as long as the owners know how to keep the training going properly and the dog is sound in mind.

1Ruger1

by 1Ruger1 on 08 October 2018 - 23:10

Jesse~ I always had it planned that as soon as I saw the lights in the review the muzzle went on~
And yes, lol I coild muzzle him while driving because he was use to being muzzled and put his nose right in.
I would probably end up arrested trying to protect him lol !

Jesse’s quote, “So to answer the original question...of course a trained dog is better than an untrained dog...trained in anything,,,,”

I ageee with you statement above 👆and had my male been better trained it would have made scenarios like the above mentioned less of a concern.


by joanro on 09 October 2018 - 00:10

Great story, Jesse, and testament to the great genetics of the breed.
These dogs should not need to be taught how to be a German Shepherd dog!

by ZweiGSD on 09 October 2018 - 01:10

My simply simplified answer: Trained protection dog should out on command from a bite. Untrained one would not. Untrained one is more dangerous.

by joanro on 09 October 2018 - 01:10

Trained ones do not always out on command.
A dog not trained specifically in bite work could have very good obedience, and since " biting" would be new to him, a recall would probably be more effective than the out command with a bite trained dog with over the top preydrive.

Prager

by Prager on 09 October 2018 - 02:10

Thank you ZweiGSD> There are other reasons why a well-trained dog is safer. You can "out" him ( as you have said), call him off from attack or from fence and tell him to accept friendly strangers or not. Wel trained dog is also told to discriminate properly based on situation and handler's wishes. Thus he responds to handler's wishes, where untrained dog makes those decisions independently of what the handler and that may be nice if your dog is Ri nTinTIn and if it works to your benefit but not so nice when the dog decides against your wishes that the person in front of him needs to get bitten.


by ZweiGSD on 09 October 2018 - 03:10

Joanro:  I am speaking in general terms, of course there will always be exceptions.
 


Prager

by Prager on 09 October 2018 - 03:10

Jessyjones. If you are in serious need of Pp dog then you MUST not rely only on it's instincts. I would like to emphasize that rejecting the potential of the need for other people besides your self of a trained dog is realy not what I would as lightheartedly as you have just done. . I often deal with victims of violent crimes who already got hurt. yet the perp is still at large. Ther benefit of such dog is 3 fold.
1/ it works like an able deterrent who will ACTUALLY protect if the perp returns.
2/ it will give a person - like a victim of rape comfort. This comfort in order to be a comfort then needs to back by more than protective instincts of the dog.
3/it will help them to deal with PTSD.
Also, there are businessmen who travel and their wife wants additional safety and does not want to have a gun in the house with children or the dog is there in addition to the gun. I have sold and trained dogs for celebrities in music and sport.
There is an infinity of reasons why people may need Pp dogs. Convenience store owner. pawn shop operator, .......An elderly person,...
I will say that it is true that Pp dogs usually never get chance to fight of a perp with a bite and the same way we can tell this about S&R dogs that they never have a chance to find a victim. Does that mean that we should forfeit the benefit of protection and S&R dogs? Of course not. I like to say that there is only less than 1% of the time you may need a Pp dog but when such a situation happens that 1% suddenly turns into 100%.





 


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