USA Sieger Show 2007 - Results... - Page 17

B: Well, you do mention the money aspect ALL the time! Of course it exists, like it does in everything. But that doesn't mean the opportunity for the little guy doesn't exist. Surely, the politics or preferences of influential people will affect some outcomes, but certainly not without some merit, or the organization would cease to be credible. Only a thought. That's why I love movies like HIDALGO. Great underdog, uhh, I mean underhorse stuff. And that's why the lottery is so popular. Some people just gotta take that chance. And maybe win!

Go for it, Deb. Good luck.

Blitzen, All is not lost. Check out Utah dei Precision. Brian got the deal everyone is looking for. He bought his first dog. Took her to the 2006 NASS where she went first place. He was so happy I saw tears in his eyes. His success continued. She went first again in the 12-18 month class at the sieger show this past weekend. He had help along the way. Support from his breeder and a good handler made it happen. She's on her way to a very successful show career with two national firsts under her belt! Don't forget Yacco Vallendarer Hohe. He's won about every show he's been entered in. Michael was a first time puppy buyer that bought a dog with no contacts and no support. How about the guy in CA that bought this imported puppy through a friend. When it came time to title the dog he contacted the dog's fathers breeder and asked for help titling the dog. The dog went V1 at the German Sieger show. I found a nice puppy for a friend. He didn't think the mother was the one for him, so he passed. The dog went SG2 at the sieger show in Oberhausen. How about the guy and his wife that went to Germany and saw a nice puppy. The breeder really didn't want to sell it, but, they managed to buy it and kept it in Germany to be trained and shown. He did really well this year placing VA3 in Danbury. I found a young 14 month old male for a buddy. We wound up buying it together. He went first ring in Karlsruhe and was the 12-18 sieger and 18-24 sieger in the US. Success stories are quite common. These people had little or no connections along the way but you can bet they found support and did the right thing at the right time. I'll bet there are dozens of US bred dogs that were sold to pet homes that could easily win at the National level. For one reason or another they were never developed and had an opportunity to reach their potential. You just have to go out there and make it happen.

Any success stories about dogs whelped in the US?

Well there's two. Just two of the winners were imported. The other 12 were North American born. Check it out for yourself. Here's a link. http://www.webhund.com/2007ss/official_show_results.pdf

Dog1 are you kidding me?! "The reason people don't handle their own dogs or grab just anyone to show them at a National event is similar to the reason People that own and train horses don't ride their own horses, or the people that own race cars do not drive them....Handling is a skill. There are those that are better than others. At National events, it's wise to prepare yourself and your program to the best of your abilities. " Your analogy compares apples to monkeys! They are not even close. Horse and Nascar racing have nothing to do with a judge other than when a ruling is needed. Rider and driver must show skill with their prepared mount. The winner is the one who beat the pack ON THEIR OWN. It had nothing to do with prior showings, who the judge stayed with overnight, if the judge built the car himself, or my favorite which car or horse had prettier or in season colors, LOL! It takes talent and knowledge to show a dog in the ring. But which is more difficult. Running the ring or showing in three phases. Okay show dog folk. Put up or shut up. Make your working dog classes show their worthiness. Make them compete in atleast a LGA to qualify as a working dog at a national seiger show. This way they have been proven by a judge other than one favored (to some purchased). The only issue working dog folk have with the show group is their unwillingness to let us have a swing at the plate. Kyle

Success stories of dogs whelped in the US: V-3 Gorbi v. Kirchenwald V-6 Zasko v. Salerno V-7 Xoltan Haus Brezel V-9 Panzer v. Mittelwest V-10 Brady v. Kirchenwald Kyle: Make your "working dogs" show their worthiness. Make them compete at least in a Landesgruppen Breed show with a minimum V rating and KKl 1 to qualify as a working dog at a national schutzhund trial. "Which is more difficult? Running the ring or showing in three phases?" It depends on goals. As someone who does both (trial & show regularly), my goals for a trial are to have fun and to pass. The sport of Schutzhund, for me, is a means to a higher end, not an end in and of itself. That higher end is the breed ring. Here my goals are to excell. There is a great deal more to "running the ring" than you realize. The dogs need to be trained and conditioned for the ring "phase". This takes every bit as much time and skill as any other "phase". You can think of the breed dogs as competing in 4 phases, not just 3. The subjective nature of judging is a fact of life in all aspects of the dog sport--not just the show ring. (As in, why did that dog earn 96 points in the track and my dog only earned 95 points?)

Hey, I started something good. Working and show dog people taking the time to explain and apparantly listen to the other side without "flaming" each other. I have a couple of quick responses though. To Blitzen, no my dear, I'm not a George Bush and I dont know if we are winning the war, I'm not there. I have relatives that are and one that has to go back over in August. Thank God our military believes in what they are doing even if our politicians dont. After all, its their asses that are on the line. Blitzen to discuss your question regarding an "average Joe", you must put a number on average income like $50,000 a year, $75000 a year etc. It cant't be under $30,000 as that is considered the poverty level and few people in that income bracket can afford to show dogs much less feed them or themselves. This comment is not intended to offend anyone in the low income groups, just trying to make some sense. This country has many examples of wealthy people having squandered thousands of dollars foolishly. Several years back there was a man from the mid west area who supposedly spent almost a million dollars on a variety of dogs. he was in and out of the breed in less than five years and most of his dogs were picked up by other breeders at "bargain basement" prices. No, I wont mention names, I prefer not to embarass people, we all make mistakes.

Well Trex, you started the thread privately with me regarding the show and this messageboard, but it was my posts that took the heat, not yours. I'm sure Blitzen wont mind answering your question. Jump on in, you were at the show. I saw your american born 9-12 male go VP8. I was surprised that you showed him at a Sieger show without any hair, he had the poorest coat of any dog in the class and you of all people should know that the Germans hate dogs in poor condition. Louise, regarding your comment about who breeds to your dog and "rareafied air". It is natural for a kennel to "promote" its own dogs, e.g. not go outside to breed and promote another kennels dogs. For example, I dont think John Hinkle will be breeding to any of Mittelwests dogs or vice versa over the next year. They are both too busy trying to be #1 in the country. There is nothing wrong with that, someone has to be first. It was your second question that bothered me and my explanation for it is this. If the people that claim to be your friends now when your counted as among the "losers"(not that I know you are), stop being your friend because you suddenly start winning, then my point was and still is, they werent your true friend to begin with. My mother used to say,"misery loves company". Never was an expression so true as when we find our dogs at the back of a pack in the show ring.

Well, apparently to the majority I did my sieger entry incorrectly. I have a German Showline bitch out of a german import and the sire is still in germany. I didn't do any ring training with her at all, I don't care about the ring.She isn't even wearing my kennel name. I have, for two years trained her faithfully in what matters to me, tracking, obedience and protection. She has been in the ring a grand total of three times, this includes the sieger show. Each time she has had a different handler, who basically took her from me, ran her in the ring, got the SG and handed her back to me. Granted, each of those handlers had their work cut out for them because Gipsi had no clue what she was doing in that ring, she has a short croup, is very dominant, carries that tail as high as she can when in motion, and has way too much confidence. Was I disappointed to again only get an SG? yes and no. I would rather have my dog be an SG all freakin' day long as long as we have the respect we deserve for the fact that my dog can actually work. That my dog is obedient, that my dog outs cleanly, that my dog has a strong bark and guard, that my dog engages, watches the helper (not the sleeve), takes a stick hit, doesn't leave the helper, doesn't show weakness, has full grips and doesn't hang onto a sleeve by the two front teeth. What pisses me off, more than the SG rating (which based on her lack of ring training she deserved) is getting a pronounced rating in the performance test, when other dogs got the same rating that didn't deserve it. What makes it better? having people who don't even know me or my dog come up to me through out the rest of the sieger show weekend, and tell me I have the best dog in the female working class, and damn near as good as the three males that could actually bite. That was priceless and worth the price of admission to the whole weekend. I won't be breeding that bitch to a dog on the podium, I prefer to breed her to a dog that can actually work, not just run around a ring, even though they were gorgous. I prefer to look for function, if form follows, whooohooo icing on the cake! Find me a homebred male, from a hard working stiff, who loves the sport, trains the dog, titles the dog at working dog trials, this is the dog I am looking for!