Bitework for the newbie - Page 2

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by astrovan2487 on 06 December 2019 - 19:12

I'd be careful who you choose to work your dog being new to bite work. If your main concern is the dog remaining a sociable pet and just doing sport for fun, find an experienced trainer that dosent use a lot of compulsion and is known for being good starting dogs and puppies. I don't know of the trainer you mentioned.

Sure if you have a perfect dog it wouldn't matter who worked your dog but most of us don't (even though we don't want to admit it sometimes). Understand that some of the sport dog trainers are of the mindset that if they don't like something in a dog, they will just get rid of it and start over with a new dog. Some don't have any issue putting way too much pressure on a dog early and then calling it crap and discarding when it dosent show them what they want. A good plan if your goal is points or breeding, not so much if your goal is just to have fun with the dog you have in front of you.

Bottom line, I don't think good bite work training makes a good dog any more dangerous than it would be without the training. But you are inexperienced so you won't really know if your dog is "good" or not, you need an honest trainer who will evaluate your dog and help you learn. Plenty of trainers out there willing to take your money and force your dog into protection regardless of if the dog can handle it.

Koots

by Koots on 06 December 2019 - 19:12

IMO, you're better off to find a local sport club and learn to train your dog little by little. Most sport clubs are motivated to develop each members' dog to their potential, using that dog's abilities, rather than by making money which is the prime motivator for some/many 'private' trainers. Since you are new to dog bitework training, you are ripe for being taken advantage of by an unscrupulous 'dog trainer' and wouldn't necessarily know the difference between work that is developing your dog and stuff that is detrimental. Here are a couple of sites to visit to find a local club in America:

https://www.germanshepherddog.com/events-new/

http://dvg-america.com/member-center/find-a-club/

 


by ValK on 06 December 2019 - 21:12

Atreus
for what purpose you want to enroll your dog into bite training?
as Hired dog did mention earlier - entering the dog into bite work (protection class) makes sense only if that dog genetically predisposed
for such type of work. bite is natural act for dogs and can be done by any dog of any size of any breed but not any and every dog can be
protector.
protection dog a MUST have innate bunch of other related to that purpose traits and specs, because those cannot be developed by
training.

what you see and perhaps been excited about is the sport competitions, trials?
well, for most part it's a bad, faked shows with purpose to impress inexperienced spectators and not truly applicable in respect of real
efficiency of dog in day by day life. in other words - if your dog do not posses necessary trait but did "succeed" in protection class, you
both simply will join the army of another cheaters.

what your dog will be after completion - absolutely depends on you, your dog's temperament and person, who will guide you and your dog
through out that training. dog may do well or be screwed up. thus it's you to make decision. but there are many other, less risky fields for
dog's activity with no necessity for aggression to be involved. why would you not consider such direction, take your time to learn and get
practical experience about dogs and their training.

by Centurian on 07 December 2019 - 02:12

Hired .. my comments have nothing to do with you ... My comments are an expressed thought about text thatr Iwas written . I did not address anything to you and my posts are commentaries for other people. My comments are abou, it is a seriuos matter to do that , and rtequires a lot of responsibility .-that is what I stressed for the reader. Had nothing to do about you and I could care less about addressing you . You always seem to make mattes personal .. Tell me : are you an insecure person or do you just think the world revolves around you ? ?

Now Hired I now direct this to you ... you are way to lacking for me to haggle with .. You , by my standards . have way way to much to still learn for me to get into a conversation with about dogs... To back up what I just stated : do you not know that dogs , at least the GS dog , with the right temperament [which a poster had referenced the importance of ] should be sound enough and have the genetic trait of discernment ? Are you that inexperienced that you do not know a dog can tell the difference between a pat on the shoulder and a handshake as opposed to an outright strike /attack - especially if the dog is well trained ? Really Hired .. are you that much out on left field or what ? And you wonder why I refrain from getting into conversations directed to you but rather address the readers in general . I am tired of you always thinking that what I write has to do with you and making lame brain comments therafter.
.
But where did I hear what I wrote : ' if you take put a weapon there is the implication that it will be used ' . Two places 1. on the ghetto streets where one learns that if some one takes out a weapon ,it is a given they plan to use it . and 2 , from my mentor that taught FBI , CIA , Royal Canadian Mounties , and was offered the USA NSA's Administrative postion for every single canine/handler team in the USA [ every single branch of the USA Military ] . He also warned about dogs being a weapon and he warned that in the use of a dog , anyone that pulls a waepon on us we are to assume that person is going to use that weapon ...And I think my mentor had a little bit more experience and that he knew a little bit more about dogs , than you ...

by Hired Dog on 07 December 2019 - 05:12

Well Cent, why dont you share your famous mentor's name with all of us mortals so we can judge how much experience he/she had...
What is a ghetto street and when was the last time you found yourself on one to know from personal experience?
A weapon can be used to hurt someone, sure, but, it can also be used to intimidate a person, end of story.
I dont remember ever speaking about hand shakes and pats on shoulders, but, let me educate you since you are clearly lacking experience. Sure, we can shake hands and my dog will just sit there. If he knows you, you can hug me too, but, its your body language that becomes different that makes the dog respond

I am way too lacking? And you ask me if I think the world revolves around me? Next, why dont you share with us the names of your highest level SV friends who regularly consult you on all matters of the breed. Also, please tell us who were those teachers who trained and severely tested you on all types of training? I am also very curious about who trained you to train a dog in all aspects without ever saying a word?

Finally Cent, I am THE most secure person you will ever come across, ever, in any part of your life. Now, its 5AM here and need to get to the gym, you have a great day.

by Lobovonder on 07 December 2019 - 07:12

Centurian,
Being familiar with the RCMP k9 and since 1990's I also would like to know the name of your mentor,as I may even know them if you don't mind. Not that it takes away from arguments you make but I find it always suspicious when posters mention unnamed sources especially with impressive CV's

Mike

by Centurian on 07 December 2019 - 08:12

Hired ... I have no respect for you .. I've come across quite a number of people like you in the dog world .. more than I care to count. Dog handlers from LE , sports , and the military - they have that experience and they think they know everything about canines . You are a small person in my eyes that cannot seperate the issues , topics from the people and the personalities. You internalize the issues and when someone writes differently than you . You IMOp , are not smarabout the GS but rather a smart a** . I do not look at dialogues as having to be right or wrong , for I achieved all that I wanted to in the dog world . But I do share honestly my thoughts and points about topics because in my life that is what and subjective views , as well as the Facts that I present, are for the readers to read and agree or disagree with . I ask for nothing in return , nor do I demand they agree . I have no respect for you . As far as what I have read from your posts , you are IMOp a despicable person that self glorifies and thinks of himslef as being the end all . You have no idea regarding anything about me , my background and so forth , yet you are personally condescending having not one aspect known about me. You are blatantly and constantly disrespectful to me simply because I have a different take on a subject or topic . If you knew a little something about me , then I would look upon your comments as being constructive , but you are a destructive in your comments . When you cannot make your points and give rationale to back up what you say ,like other small minded ,immature , ill informed and insecure people you have to attack or belittle that person's character. Experience .. Hired , if you knrw my experience and erarned qulifications/credentials you might think that you do not even have 1/3 as much and IMOp I think that is your problem with me - THAT is what eats you up inside because you lack self esteem andyou try to over compensate .. I bet you, most of your life has always been trying to prove your self .and anything that undermines that is a threat to you . I said that you have a way to go [ and you do , you just cannot recognize that ] and you can start by learning to have politeness and manners ... especially for people that see things a little different dimension or deeper than you do [ let alone about canines ]. As I had written , you will get nothing from me... before I end I will give you some of the ghetto street talk : you ask for names .. and my remark is : " what's to you " and don't worry about names because from your demeaning remar ks/ posts they wouldn't give to you the time of day .. Nor will I .. your on your own and you will get no introduction to anyone as I would be humilated to introduce you to anyone I know .

Oli had written to me in another thread abbout breeding refernces : that many of the people on the PDB that were well experienced left years ago because how they treated each other , quibbling . He is correct , some of them as a matter of fact , I had even known .. Unfortunately many people that could contribute do not come on the PDB to waste their time because of people like you . There are a small number of people that are very knowledgeable on this forum and a number of them whom I admire . Unfortunatley the people in the know , and many of the most knowledgeable elite GS / canine people no longer come to the site because of people like yourself. If I showed them some of your posrs BTW , IMOp they would laugh at what you have writen on some occassions...


emoryg

by emoryg on 07 December 2019 - 08:12

Atreus, All dogs are different and there’s no definitive way to say that bitework will have any change on your dog. But I have no reason to believe that starting your dog in a sport like schutzhund/IPO/IGP will make your dog any less a big sweetie, unless people start walking down the street wearing the bite sleeves he wants.

My own experience is that bitework had little, if any effect on the dogs I worked with. They were the same dogs before and after. Scenario based training allowed them to know when and where biting was permitted. There was no ambiguity, kind of like being on a sports field.

I agree with others, try going to the local sport clubs and get a feel for what all is happening. Call before you go and ask if you can bring your dog with you. They may want you to get him out so he can also watch some of the activities and perhaps make an assessment on his suitability. Most clubs are a wealth of information on other training like obedience and tracking (my favorite). If you like it, pay a small membership fee, be willing to give out more than you receive, and things should go well. Go have some fun with your dog!

by Hired Dog on 07 December 2019 - 08:12

Cent, you have done nothing but put me down in this entire post, called me everything you can think of, yet, claimed that I have done all these things. Can you read? You keep talking about your grand experience and I offered you a chance to share with us all these things you claim to be, yet, what do I get? A condescending response from one who talks a great game but ignores the substance, typical.

I need no introductions Cent, I am VERY comfortable where I am, you again took the opportunity to make yourself look grandiose with more BS. Actually Cent, I took a couple of year hiatus from the PDB because my temperament cannot take the likes of you, all talk and zero substance. I cannot tell you how bad or good it was here, but, I can tell you there have been many like you who talked themselves to the end of their participation in here.

In closing Cent, you have a great day.

by Gustav on 07 December 2019 - 08:12

Atreus, the last paragraph of Astrovan 2487 is sound advice.





 


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