German shepherd breeders specially ddr pls answer - Page 17

Pedigree Database

 
sentinelharts

by sentinelharts on 10 January 2020 - 13:01

I think Schutzhund has changed over the years. And so has dog training methods. The expectation for precision is exponentially higher in the sport today. For example, the grip must be FULL and must not move until the out command. Dogs that growl on the sleeve even with a full calm grip are docked points. Each time a dog bumps the sleeve, points are deducted. If the dog is slightly forging or does not sit straight, points come off....... watch a performance video from thirty years ago, you will not see a routine anything like what is winning today


by stormins on 10 January 2020 - 14:01

sentinelharts

I have 2 of Bill's grandsons from different dams and it is interesting comparing the difference in the 2 drives ...

But back to the OP question .... they are both gorgeous .... but they are NOT show dogs


Hundmutter

Can you explain how the West German Showline exists?


How can it be traced back?


Is there a showline registry?

Can you prove that there is a WGSL?


Am I correct to assume  that this type dog is one you have had personal hands on experience with as opposed to the DDR?


I personally think the showline is a scam perpetuated  and designed to separate people from their money and drive revenue for "shows" and clubs


by ValK on 10 January 2020 - 15:01

Hundmutter
i really don't know how dog records were kept on DDR border but because main supplier was civilians, i guess the dogs, before being purchased was already entered in national register.
if you look at data of dogs produced by zPS, you will notice some of their dogs instead of common CKSP had EV.C abreviation, which makes me guess that in Czechoslovakia back then they used to have  alternate record keeping.
RCMP in Canada do not provide puppy buyers paperwork to be used for registration with CKC.
my dogs had only tattoo and records in veterinarian office at border, who was responsible for breeding, track keeping for produced litters and the dogs, who was brought back to border.

apple
I believe, and Valk has written, that the DDR breeders liked to use dogs in their breeding program with high degrees of dominance and social aggression.

i didn't have communication with breeders in DDR thus i don't feel like i can tell anything on their behalf. i do have good practical experience rising and training dogs for border service but as i said earlier - those dogs cannot be considered as a typical DDR dogs. i'm sure there were much more variations and my knowledge about civilian breeding in DDR is marginal, limited to general terms and conditions which was known to any person in east block, who have been involved with GSDs.
this site in data base has top producers of former DDR and usualy their pages includes korung and wertmessziffer assessment. not all of them after dash had 44, 55 or variation of these numbers but anyway was used in breeding.

sentinelharts
you're correct. i wasn't involved in dog sport back in 70s-80s but have noticed significant difference in schutzhund field execution by the dogs in old videos, shoot back then in DDR, comparing to present.
in old videos pretty obvious that the dogs was allowed to work freely, in more natural way.
i guess that's main point. the judges looked and did assessment of  true nature of dogs vs. today's assessing handler's skill to hide and mask possible flaws in dogs.


mrdarcy (admin)

by mrdarcy on 10 January 2020 - 15:01

Stormins and Hundmutter can you please take your little back and forth to PM's and let the rest of the participants get on with the matters in hand...thanks guys.

emoryg

by emoryg on 10 January 2020 - 17:01

I located a few pics of some DDR dogs from the 1980s to 1991.  I will try to find more.  Someone mentioned Haus Iris.  I met a few of the dogs from that kennel that were produced back in the 80s.  I included pictures I took of one of those males.  You can decide for yourself if the appearance has changed over the years. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p2yjcwvf5uok60r/DDR%20Females.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rioeyr4meiv9ibn/DDR91.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3rf4lmabcl98bvk/DDRRex.jpg?dl=0


by ValK on 11 January 2020 - 16:01

from the first link to pix with 3 bitches, i would say one at top is closest in structure to type i remember.
in regard two other, they slightly lacking bone mass comparing to first one but still, they are nice,strong looking girls.
in comparison to prevalent today type of bitches, they indeed quite notably have much stronger back legs and hips and more sturdy overall build.
dog on last link is nice looking, with strong build dog but in general quite average type for that time. all my male dogs was somewhat bigger than that Rex.
b.t.w. one of my dog (third one) was also had Rex name :)

by stormins on 11 January 2020 - 19:01

 


Here are some other North American East German breeders

Eickental
Schutzengelplatz
Acadienne
Wolvesden
Gatorland
Harterhund
Icer K9


My DDR's I breed have similar bloodlines to any others available today but are weighted more to the Grafental and Flossgraben lines.

 


by K9L1 on 12 January 2020 - 01:01

Here is a video on DDR dogs. The guy talking sounds like John Birds  from vom Ostschutz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXzUHjBMgIw

I think the solid tank like dog in the viid at 1:04 is the type that  Valk has been referring to.


by apple on 13 January 2020 - 07:01

Stormins,
By the late 1970's and early 1980's, the German SV focused on lines from Canto Wienerau, Uran Wildsteiger Land and Arminius kennel, and these dogs were selected primarily for structure and coat color, not working ability. There was definitely a split in the breed by then, if not a little earlier.

by apple on 13 January 2020 - 07:01

Stormins,
By the late 1970's and early 1980's, the German SV focused on lines from Canto Wienerau, Uran Wildsteiger Land and Arminius kennel, and these dogs were selected primarily for structure and coat color, not working ability. There was definitely a split in the breed by then, if not a little earlier.





 


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