by Baerenfangs Erbe on 13 June 2020 - 23:06
by duke1965 on 14 June 2020 - 00:06
if they work over prey only, it has to be extremely high, otherwise the dog will not work on the street, problem is that everything will trigger them into prey, so they are not for first time handlers, no john wick dogs at all
many bitingincidents on the street of privately owned dogs, are preybite incidents as well, have nothing to do with agresssion, running child, jogger, bycicle etc
@ apple, the idea that everybody in KNPVis training that brutal way is ridiculous, many good and smart trainers in KNPV and not an awful lot of dogs that can take the old type brutal training anymore
problems of KNPV are many at same time, declining numbers of members/dogs, corona and a few backstabbing members or ex members who called on shitty TV shows
by apple on 14 June 2020 - 11:06
I never said “everybody.” I know you know what I am talking about. A breeder near me has a KNPV Mal X stud he bought from the Netherlands and he had his trachea severely damaged by his handler there. The dog is a very good producer but can never be worked again. How many clubs were shut down from this recent incident? It is ingrained in the KNPV culture.
by ValK on 14 June 2020 - 12:06
dog without significant prey can have strong possession as well.
for sure, possessiveness may create a problem but it's a secondary, kind of possible outcome of the first issue - what motivating and trig an attack.
by duke1965 on 14 June 2020 - 14:06
by apple on 14 June 2020 - 14:06
by BlackMalinois on 15 June 2020 - 11:06
Mwahhh... this was pure sensation , we all know how it works the more sensation te more people watch
and is more cash for advertisement ,comercial tv.
Not saying it doesn,t happen but more and more trainers in KNPV have adjusted there training methods
And yes KNPV can be very harsh even today, but we al know there are world class trainers and
trainers that sucks and have very oldschool methods.
One of the issue is the breeding program they went mostly extreme turbo drives and this dogs are not allways easy to
handle, yesterday I pick up a youngster 5 months old was too much for that handler.
Police in Holland also don,t went middle drive dogs they look for more extreme in drives tracking and detection dogs.
And a LE street dog must can take any pain in a conflict with a suspect so some hardness must be in a breeding and extreme drives with a hard dog who,s not impressed with some corrections CAN need plan B....not all dogs are yellow ball and cookie monsters
In my opinon KNPV need more profesional management it is a litle bit amateurism at that headquarter this moment.
..... that KNPV program is too oldschool IMO they have to udate this very soon some exercises are a waste of time better, they need this better adjust how police handlers today work with their dogs and not in 1920 with all respect
by apple on 15 June 2020 - 12:06
I agree that the type of dog now preferred in Holland is what you describe. I believe the problem is that too many trainers focus on building the drive to its genetic potential not realizing that you have to teach the pup and young dog to think and learn control and to make good decisions and that can't be done if the emphasis is so much on drive. Drive is genetic so it won't go away. And extreme drive dogs can absolutely be trained with food and a toy, which I think is another part of the problem. Sometimes food is actually better than a toy because it doesn't trigger prey drive nearly as much. Once a dog has learned to think and some impulse control, the training can go to a toy. Prong and e-collars are still useful tools, but you don't have to use them in an extreme way if the control is taught first. I know e-collars are banned in Holland and I know people still use them. I see it a lot with the type of dogs you are referring to and when outsiders visit our club, the first thing the dog has to learn is that self control will lead to getting to bite or some other reward. Part of training extreme dogs is training them to calm down and think. This approach doesn't require extreme compulsion. I think that the old timers value extreme compulsion partly because it shows them which dogs are not likely to fold on the street if a bad guy kicks them in the head.
by Hired Dog on 15 June 2020 - 13:06
Bart Bellon says that dogs work better when they try to avoid the stick as opposed to getting the sugar bread, he has a point. As far as what these dogs do when they get to the street, I am not sure its much of a concern to the person selling a dog so they can get another one and start over.
Having said that, I cannot see how a title or a few extra points are worth the abuse you need to dish out, how do you look in the mirror?
I have zero problem giving a hard correction when needed, but, the level of abuse some guys can put out is way out of my comfort zone.
by apple on 15 June 2020 - 14:06