by Baerenfangs Erbe on 17 October 2020 - 09:10
Allow me to be more clear, our working ranch dogs do not get cookies when being "trained" either.
They may not get cookies because their reinforcement is different. They still learn the same way though. "What do I have to do in order to get what I want."
Their primary reinforcer is simply a different one but they still have one. This shows, that people don't understand how dogs actually learn, otherwise they wouldn't say stuff like "My dog never gets any cookies."
Lay down, shut up - you get a cookie
Lay down, shut up - you get to chase a ball
Lay down, shut up - you get to drive cattle
Lay down, shut up - you get to walk through this door
Lay down, shut up - you get to use your nose and follow that scent trail (Beagles)
You can use pretty much anything, thats important to the dog, as a primary reinforcer. The more importance it has to the dog, they stronger the reinforcer.
No $hiT your dog isn't getting any cookies, because your dogs primary reinforcer is the action of moving stock, for example!
In Sport we like high food drive dogs because it's easier to condition a dog for the high level of precision with food, and to get more reps in.
I like to train Mobility dogs with food, because, again, it's easier to condition with food and get the reps in.
A Farm Dogs requirements are entirely different from that of a sport dog. Their requirements is to move stock. Moving stock is a strong reinforcer. Go over there, lay down, then you get to move again. Etc.
The goal with anything is that the trained task gets generalized and proofed to the poing that the task itself becomes reinforcing. Like with Athos, picking up anything for me is reinforcing in itself now. I can actually use "retrieving" any type of object as a reinforcer now because the simple interaction between him and me as a SD has become so valuable that it's a reward in itself.
by ValK on 17 October 2020 - 11:10
by Hired Dog on 17 October 2020 - 12:10
A well trained dog will bite anything that is available, but, a well trained lawyer will sue the shit out of the agency employing the dog, the trainer, the handler and anyone else he can to get as much money as possible.
Back in the 80's, I had a dog that loved to bite the back of legs, if you were running and if you faced him, the crotch area. He was a real hit...but, not the dog that was often called to engage anyone.
Today, I have seen some training exercises by the GIGN where the "bad guy" wears a bite suit and a helmet and the handler is actually encouraging the dog to target the face area.
I am not sure how the laws are in the UK, but, here it would be game over that day. Read the article I posted in here somewhere...
by Hired Dog on 17 October 2020 - 12:10
He found him, sitting next to the other suspect who was holding the dog by the collar, I am not sure if he was choking the dog or not, but, the deputy famously yelled, "GET OFF MY DOG BRO"...they even made T shirts with that on it...
by GSCat on 17 October 2020 - 19:10
by Hundmutter on 17 October 2020 - 09:10
Yeah Hired Dog I can see why biting rather than holding would be a practical preference in an American LE situation, of course it would. ValK however was posting about 'embarrassment' with a dog that could not find a piece to latch onto; I was simply musing about the origin of the various exercises devised for (Schutzhund) in earlier times.
Agree on importance of good bite for various reasons/situations.
Sometimes situation changes. Some suspects do stop/give up/comply rather than get bit. Others are stupid and run, hide, etc., and end up getting bit. Training and handler are key to preventing an unnecessary bite. Unnecessary versus necessary dictated by situation, State/local laws (all different), SCOTUS, department policies, etc., etc., etc.
Feel bad for K9 getting called off multiple times in one day when suspects all decide to suddenly get smart and comply/stop after K9 deployed.
by ThatWasClose on 17 October 2020 - 19:10
You are talking about Pasco County FL K9 Shep. Someone even made t-shirts saying "Get off My Dog Bro." There are several videos of Shep's various apprehensions.