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by darylehret on 18 October 2010 - 04:10
by duke1965 on 18 October 2010 - 04:10
by darylehret on 18 October 2010 - 06:10
by darylehret on 18 October 2010 - 06:10
by duke1965 on 18 October 2010 - 06:10
for personal protection and patrolwork , thats another question , there I want my nog not all hyped up for a guy in a bitesuit(prey) , but solely responding to a threat , not jumping and barking when the prey moves or after the out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpjvHIcnBIA
this is defence based training
however it was not the question how I or anybody else train , or why you dont at all , butthe point was that many dogs ere bred and selected on extremes , one of them being preydrive
many dogs have high preydrive , but lacking courage , but will bite in their safe program solely over their preydrive , some of these dogs you can recognize when they fall off the sleeve on the long bite , and the helper really comes in on the rebite you see some doubt and some even dont reengage , you even see this happen on WUSV level ,
also many malinois are like this , more prey than courage
by Jenni78 on 18 October 2010 - 12:10
Well, folks, the discussion is over. Nothing left to debate. Daryl has spoken and the fact is that if a dog is territorial, s/he has weak nerves.
Jeff says: I started off with the Disney version of what dogs are. If I had my choice, I would probably go back and never figure this shit out. I do think less of dogs overall.
Jeff, maybe it's that dogs think less of YOU overall, hence the destruction of your Disney view.
From your posts detailing what you look for in a dog, what you select against, and what you are happy ending up with, it's a wonder you still like dogs at all.
by charlie319 on 18 October 2010 - 13:10
by Jeff Oehlsen on 18 October 2010 - 14:10
second and most important reason is , malinois are a national breed in belgium , and its a belgium originated sport , created by the belgium shepherd breeders
the reason why you see schh trained GSD fail in ring is NOT because they were trained in defence , because no schh dog is trained in defence , but because every schh training is build up over prey , also mine dogs with more than average defence/sharpness are build up over prey , because that is what you want in schh , or the dog wont bite the arm , but go for the closest part he can get
furthermore , defence and insecurety are two totally different things
I have a GSD's and they bite just fine. I just want them to bite, however Esko pushes in, and Basco just bites. Sch people tend to teach their dogs to pull. Ring people tend to teach to bite in.
So there is no table training out there ? There is not defense training done at all ? : )
Quote: also mine dogs with more than average defence/sharpness are build up over prey , because that is what you want in schh , or the dog wont bite the arm , but go for the closest part he can get
I am just guessing, but you are saying that your dogs are defensive and sharp and go for something other than the arm ? I saw you with your little bitch and I did not see defensive or sharp. You are not going to find those dogs that bite just where ever very often.
Quote: From your posts detailing what you look for in a dog, what you select against, and what you are happy ending up with, it's a wonder you still like dogs at all.
I have no idea what you are saying.
Quote: the fact is that if a dog is territorial, s/he has weak nerves.
Weaker nerves, yes. How do you explain all those dogs that you go to the house and they are wagging their tail to get petted ??
Lets just take three dogs all of which are the same dog nerve wise. How they are raised is going to effect if they bark or not. Many dogs that show "territorial aggression" are just goofing out of boredom. If you open the gate they stop barking and start wagging.
Some dogs just wag and walk up to you
Some dogs will act savage on the fence have not been socialized very well.
Can what we call "nerves" be effected by how we socialize the dog Jennie poo poo ?
by duke1965 on 18 October 2010 - 14:10
by breeding patroltype dogs to more sport(prey)dogs , Im getting multiple dogs in the litter whith what I see as the right BALANCE between prey end defence/sharpness or civil whatever label you wanna put on
I completely understand that people who want to compete on a high level want a dog that is most suitable for the job , a preymonster , being an extreme like what hans was referring too
furthermore , not all dogs do wag their tail and want to get petted , but I agree , many dogs stop being teritorial as soon as the fence opens
by LHET on 18 October 2010 - 15:10
Hi guys,
May a have a few (rather stupid) questions?
- What do we mean by Working Line dogs in general? "Ugly" GSDs winning hundreds of cups? Or GSDs having WL blood, regularly attending competitions? Isn't it possible that a WL GSD can be "V something" at a show? Can't they get Kkl1? Might not be "VA", but there are a few "VAs" only every year anyhow.
- Top SL dogs have SCHH-1/2/3 exams, don't they? Doesn't it mean that they are somehow able to work? Can't believe that their exams have all been bought. Couldn't they compete in smaller contests at least at SCHH1 level? Results would of course depend on the rank of the event, but they can have at least some.
As I see the problem is that SL breeders/owners are not willing to run on both fields. WL guys don't want to struggle with SL dogs. Big guys on both side are focusing more on their arena, and not wasting energy (and money!) to get two ends closer. Small breeders (I guess a few big ones as well, but not that many) do some trials but having not enough dogs for further selection will not contribute to a real revolution. A long term systematic breeding would be needed to get the desired GSD, which needs "some" money, cooperation of professionals and a real support from SV/WUSV. (But as long as we talk about two completely different parties I do not expect any big bang.)
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