Why are Showlines generally priced higher than Working Lines?? - Page 15

If schutzhund ceased to exist I think the dogs would eventually be more middle of the road.  Most people do not want a dog with crazy drives just as most people do not want a dog that is incapable of doing anything useful.  I think the higher drive dogs would find work as police dogs, military dogs, or personal protection dogs.  I think the dogs that are not so driven for protection work would find work as sheepherding dogs or service dogs.  There would be uses for dogs of sound temperment and good health. 

Best Regards,
Cheryl

"The WL sometimes down the SL the SL people down the WL."

Actually, I often see WL people disparaging SL's but almost never see SL people disparaging WL dogs.

JMNSHO......the same temperament needed for schutzhund is needed for herding....being hit by a soft stick is nothing compared to being hit by a unruly sheep...anyone stating different is misguided.

I do helper work on all breeds...I have worked 4 S/L shepherds that I would put up against any W/L shepherd. They were imported from Germany...I'm also working 3 S/L right now that will have a hard time getting a BH....let alone a schutzhund 1. I'm working 9 W/L shepherds that will be titled....2 Dobermans that are as ill equipped for bite work as the S/L shepherds...2 malinois that are titled.
People keep talking about real work for dogs...like the work most GS did is still viable. As the jobs have changed....man has changed the temperament of the dog. I have paid as much as 2400 for a 15 month old bitch....I can get a pup now for 450 that has excellent breeding. Just the facts folks...just the facts....





 

There simply would not be enough jobs to go around for all the WL and SL dogs working in there own sports if both were to stop, It is the WL Sch sport which holds the key, that stops then the SL line will stop, no Schutzund work for them to do or try, just running round the ring and competing on conformation only, it would soon lose favour,
 Then what for these noble dogs nothing at all, the work would not be there for the huge volume of the dogs
Me' i am an out and out WL Sch person, but i know the work that goes into getting a SL ready to compete at a high level but that side is not for me but i still admire both the dog and the handler of those dogs they all have a place and they can work together BETTER than us humans can,
But 'Hey' is that any suprise, i think NOT.
Steve1

 Judron and Slamdunc: opinions please.


You both have worked WL and SL lines and been involved with the titleing and obviously the training and doing the helper work. I,ve always found that if you want to get honest info on a dog ask the helper not the handler.

 What do you think would happen if the Sch 1 were done as a regional trial only for the GSD. A 3 day event first day Sch1 2nd day conformation 3rd Day Kore class. For the dog to recieve the Sch1 he would have to complete all 3 days. 

 The criteria for the 1 would be as it is presently with the exception of including the attack on the handelr out of the blind and also a old stlye catch where the helper runs out the dog is sent and the helper turns on the dog for the attack for the courage test.

 Possibly a vertical wall jump also.
 



The same helpers on all dogs WL and SL no changing judges the same helpers showing the same intensity doing all the work. 

Would this not be a better test for a breeding title then the current?





 


   

I get tired of people that CAN'T read. Nobody says that ALL show lines can't work.....they usually say that a disproportionate amount for the integrity of the breed don't work. Its people who refuse to acknowledge truth that's killing the breed. It is seldom that I see a SL do GREAT work, good work yes....great work...not as often as the greatness of the breed should dictate they possess. This is fact....changing statements to "I'm tired of ALL SL being put down or can't work " is an emotional response that changes what is being said so that a few isolated examples can be made. If you have to resort to this to make your point....then you make my POINT! I have more respect for the people who openly say I don't breed nor really want a top working dog, then the people who give misleading statements like "there are good and bad working dogs in both lines" ....yeah but if one is 70% and the other is 25%....then that statement distorts the reality of the working status of each line. Hey Folks, it is what it is....but indignation and misleading staements that harbor a grain of truth is not going to change the equation. Talk to guide people or law enforcement people about whether they look for dogs out of the SL anymore. They don't! There is a reason, and it is not bashing!!! Sure there is one out of thirty law Enforcement dogs you may know that does real work and is SL, but the other 29 arent! And again there is a reason...and until some of you get you nose out the air and realize what the real working trainers already know..Well it will continue.....in a handbasket!!!
Keith, you are right, most SL people don't criticize WL....I have no problem agreeing with you on that as the beauty is an opinion, but whether the dog can work or not is pretty factual.
Rik, You are a showline person and I respect your posts the most because though you acknowledge you love for SL and your participation for years, you clearly acknowledge where they have gone wrong and people like you will change equation over time, but the enablers....never!!

"Talk to guide people or law enforcement people about whether they look for dogs out of the SL anymore. They don't!"

Increasingly, they're not using GSD's at all.

The police force is increasingly not using GSDs, why?
I have heard about it, but is it really true?Why the malinois?

Mals and dutchies.

 I hear that alot but every time i see a k-9 vehicle it has a German shepherd in it? yes i,ve seen the dutchies and Mali,s also but not with the frequency of the GSD. Our local sheriffs dept has 1 GSD and 1 Dutchie.  

I still think the over whelming count would have the shepherds account for more animals. I could be wrong.