I like American show bloodlines. Crosses anyone? - Page 6

jackie the shutzund club treated u that way? wow sick

Just FYI, I know a breeder who imported a very well-bred German dog back in the '80s, and was preparing it for its Sch2. It was doing the a-frame and the scaling wall without difficulty.

Then, someone wanted to breed to this dog, so the owner had his hips done.

As soon as the x-rays were dry, the vet called her into his exam room. "I want you to see this," he said. "This dog has just about the WORST hips I've ever seen!"

She shed a few tears, as it had cost over $5,000 to buy and import him, had him neutered, and found him a pet home.

So, when it comes to hips, NOTHING...but NOTHING takes the place of an x-ray!

Sunsilver
The breeder did the right thing!  And yes, nothing takes the place of an xray.

There have been a few of dogs in the history of the sport that have competed at a high level with bad hips, however, it's not really known how those dogs faired once the regular training was done and they became sedentary. A fit dog with bad hips and high pain tolerance can accomplish a lot.
However, thats not the norm. Most times, these dogs break down before they are able to be titled etc.

Starting by maintaining some sort of working ability in ANY lines along with nothing but the healthiest of dogs should be the first step in breeding. ASL or otherwise.

BTW, the breeder was Tina Barber, and hip dysplasia was one of the reasons she started her own breed.

I think the reason this dog was still able to work was the hips were completely out of the sockets, so there was no pain from bone rubbing on bone. He also would have been quite fit due to the schutzhund training he was doing. So, it would have been similar to a dog that's had a femoral head osteotomy.

There were a lot of surprised owners of large breed dogs when xraying hips fell into favor in the late 60's, early 70's. Some with the worst hips on xrays were the best working sleddogs,  a much more demanding "sport" than Sch, French Ring, anything we would consider a good test of a GSD's endurance and character.

What evaluating hips prior to breeding brought to the table for these mushers was that they found they consistently bred better freighting dogs with more endurance from clear parents and didn't have as many "wash outs".


 

I suspect there are just as many breeders of German lines that do not xray hips and elbows as there are those breeding American lines. I am concerned that more breeders of both are not using the DNA DM test. The majority of ASL breeders I know are every bit as ethical as their GSL peers when it come to health checks prior to breeding and they generally test for more diseases/conditions. 

Advanced AKC titles like CDX's, UD's, UDT's, T's, advanced agility titles are difficult to attain. IMO the most diffcult and time consuming title for a GSD to earn is the HGH yet the few dogs that have done that don't seem to get the respect or recognition they deserve. For some reason we have come to be more impressed with a video of GSD standing atop a car trying to rip the roof off to get at a perp than we are a video of a GSD tending a flock of sheep.

Rass, given the fact that all GSD's spring from the same gene pool, IMO  the "difference" we see between the GLS/GWL/ASL is a testament to the power of selective breeding. Dogs have mulitiple births so it really doesn't take very long to change the overall look and temperament of any breed. It would be quite possible to consistently produce dogs that look like and act like the foundation dogs in  4, 5 generations (or less) of selective breeeding.

I doubt most would want to do that; it's not the style that is popular today and the tending temperament would probably not appeal to those who train in protection. Plus it would take linebreeding and some inbreeding to accomplish; both dirty words in the GSD world. So we play the hand that is dealt us and do the best we can .

Yep, Destiny4u, it hurt, & it made me embarrassed about both myself & my girl, & it shaped the way I feel about going to training & Schutzhund clubs.....like I better know what I'm doing BEFORE I go, so it won't happen again. And to be fair, only a couple members took part in tearing down my girl & I. There are a few folks still around that were very nice, that I'm sure weren't aware of what happened. Some day, if my health allows, I'll try again. jackie harris

Jackie, you need to move to The Tampa Bay area. We have a nice mix of lines, pedigrees, and breeds at our protection classes. And it never snows here either!!!

LOL, Blitzen, my husband's from St. Augustine....his sister's family lives in Tampa. We've been down to visit a couple of times....I wouldn't mind moving, but I'd have to convince him! He doesn't want to go back, for some reason....LOL! jackie harris