Hock walker? - Page 6

I doubt if he said that.
Police work definitely requires a dog of good conformation that can withstand rigorous work such as climbing high walls, speed, endurance etc.

I've been told (I don't know) that this dog below would probably be awarded well in conformation.  She can cover a lot of ground, smoooothly and really fast, and has the endurance (and desire) to tend flocks all day long.  One thing she certainly doesn't do, is walk on her dang hocks!

Wow, nice looking (shiny) pup!  that has beautiful conformation IMHO.

Her four year pic, and 3&half month pic, just for comparison.

She reminds me of the "V" rated Fenga vom Kirschental, who doesn't appear much of a "hock walker" herself.

Sitasmom, I spelled out what I thought was working and it was more than police dogs .....now i can make the emails public to show this, but for what purpose. After seeing you write what you just did, I have no more dialogue for you and your supposedly set up questions. Fortunately, people who know me don't buy your garbage about me saying ONLY police dogs were working dogs.....integrity is something we should all have, take care!

The FCI standard........which comes from the SV standard......

Character
The German Shepherd Dog must be well-balanced (with strong nerves) in terms of character, self-assured, absolutely natural and (except for a stimulated situation) good-natured as well as attentive and willing to please. He must possess instinctive behaviour, resilience and self-assurance in order to be suitable as a companion, guard, protection, service and herding dog.

OH MY.......!

When asked by Sitasmom did I consider police dogs only work....here was my response;

Guide dogs do work, herding dogs do work, SAR dogs do work, there are plenty of dogs that do work besides police work.....but for breeding I differentiated that we must use dogs that possess the courage and nerve to be the things that are in the standard.Therefore, people who are breeding dogs that have the Golderetreiver temperament ONLY is faulty. The breed's legacy was made in many different fields but you can't get away from the strength of protection and fearlessness and courage. And some people today are breeding for Golden temperament....all of my dogs could be seeing eye dogs or therapy dogs or pets.....but they can do the protection piece well and that's the crux of the breed. They are not exclusive of each other except for these new "line" breeders that are breeding dogs for specialty purposes. The breed was never intended to be specialty but rather an all around great working dog capable of many task. That's not what people are focusing on today....they let their likes come before the standard 

Compare this to what she says above........As far as I am concerned the character of some SL people is the same as their dogs.....not very reliable. As my mother would say....nothing is worse than a LIAR!

My 2 cents.....
I have to come and post in favor of Gustav.
I AM a SL breeder.....and I believe what Cliff says is pretty much what "he" expects from ALL bloodlines, not just the SL enthusiasts.
Dogs that are capable of performing the multiple tasks set forth in the standard of the breed....not just excelling in one.
Understandably...not all puppies or litters are going to produce puppies that will be capable....but it should still be the goal of the breeder to do such.

Unless you actually breed or bred dogs that can and have been able to do so.....all you can do is post or parrot from someone else's knowledge and accomplishments....and it makes for a poor fight.  *And it happens all over the forums, from everywhere.*

I have bred good dogs and some,  less than I desired....but I can guarantee...that each litter we "consider" has the same goal in place.....
JMHO

Gustav, by saying that every GSD must be able to be a police dog to be breedworthy you are missing much of the point. The way in which you wrote you pm shows that while trying to playcate people who train their dogs to do others things, you believe that the only real work is police work...........just how it sounded to me......

If you notice, the breed standard listed "companion" first..... in documents like these, the order in which the words are listed important. A companion animal with balanced temperament and trainability....

He must possess instinctive behaviour, resilience and self-assurance in order to be suitable as a companion, guard, protection, service and herding dog.    

Sorry if this sounds like a golden or a lab, but this is the first sentence that discribes the character of a good German Shepherd.....once again the order in which the statements in such a document is very important. Where we have a problem is to the degree we place on "strong nerves"....... "

The German Shepherd Dog must be well-balanced (with strong nerves) in terms of character, self-assured, absolutely natural and (except for a stimulated situation) good-natured as well as attentive and willing to please."


GSD's were selectivly bred for seeing eye dog and for herding.......this is nothing new. The dogs bred for these uses didn't have SchH titles, yet were used to develop special purpose dogs way back when the breed was young.


The use of GSD's for guard/protection was devised later in the history of breed when they needed patrol/guard dogs for the war. This is also when the breed standard changed.... Max realized that with time fewer and ferwer dogs would be needed for herding, and to save the breed changed how they were to be used. This is when they went from VA1 SGR, CH. (US) Klodo vom Boxberg to VA1 Volker vom Sonnenstein , dogs with much more stubtance. This is when SchH titles started to come into play......before this there were a several of different titles that were acceptable as far as prooving breed worthness.

As far as people looking at the very first GSD's and saying this is what they should be, I have to disagree, Max had much influence over his breed until around 1929, and one must look at the progression. From this  VA Jörg von der Krone (fr. von Schwabisch-Gmund or Wolf) to SGR Hussan vom Haus Schütting .. though he was not there to see it win VA1, Max was still involved in the developement of the breed when this one was born and raised.....



 One of the greatest promoters of new tasks was von Stephanitz. He claimed the new breed could do almost anything and there were trainers to do the training. They found the dogs adapted to all sorts of diversified jobs that no one would have expected a dog to be able to do. The SV developed tests and offered degrees (titles) to those dogs that passed the tests. These dogs were actually used in disciplines they were trained and tested for. The developed a sit of requirements for ambulance dog. When the passed the test, the were given the title SH. The did the same with police work and gave them a title PH. Possible this is why they got the popular name, for years as the German Shepherd were known as “police dogs.” For dogs actually working in police they brought out some tougher tests. And the passers of these were given the title PDH.

Some of these titles included SuchH (tracking), HGH (herding), MH (scout dogs), Zpr (companion), SchH (defence), BlH (blind guide dog)….

Personally I prefer GSD's that can title in both SV and AKC venues.

This photo is all about bad timing when the shutter was pressed and lack of knowledge of the person who submitted the photo in the first place. Even the soundest, best moving GSD can look unsound if caught on film at the "wrong" time in the gait sequence. Why anyone would post a photo like this totally baffles me. I have to think it was a rank novice; I hope that a seasoned dog person would know better.