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by Blitzen on 22 February 2013 - 14:02
Acutally I do think a skilled handler could take any of these dogs and set them up to look like different dogs. Type, including coat quality and color, will be a big factor, more so than actual conformation; ergo the WL will not look like the ASL, but he could be trained to set up in a way that would make him look like he had more rear angulation, more forechest, a more sloping backline. The ASL could be set up to show less rear, and a less sloping backline. IMO the GSL and the ASL aren't really all that different conformation wise. Add a more refined head and a flatter back to the GSL and teach him to stack with his rear closer to the ground and I believe there would be more similarities than not. Imagine the roach is removed from this dog, that alone would make a huge difference .Add a heavier head to the ASL, give him a roach, a little more length to his hocks, and teach him to stack in a more upright position, same thing. I never believe what I see in a photo unless I've seen the dog in person.
by gsdstudent on 22 February 2013 - 14:02
never breed to a picture or a score book. Ask the linebacker from ND. I have seen top handlers make a good dog look very good and a very good dog look great and the reverse is true . You tube video can be edited, pictures air brushed. gotta touch the entire GSD.
by VKGSDs on 22 February 2013 - 14:02
Blitzen I can "imagine" all those things but it's just that....imagination! I think a moderate dog from any line can certainly be stacked different depending on venue but there is a point at which the dog is what it is. With those bottom two dogs, you cannot get one to look like the other (make a cookie-cutter and have them look the same overlapped). The middle dog is never going to have a perfectly straight topline (of the three, I am familiar with this dog).
by Blitzen on 22 February 2013 - 15:02
Sure they will never look exactly the same, that wasn't my point - each could be set up to look much different from photo to photo only by the way they are set up.
When I said imagine the GSL without a roach, I was trying to point out that eliminating that and refining the head could result in a dog that didn't look much different than the ASL. Their basic conformation is really very similar, it's the type that varies. That could not be accomplished simply by setting the dog in a different pose so I probably confused the issue by mentioning that in the same post.
When I said imagine the GSL without a roach, I was trying to point out that eliminating that and refining the head could result in a dog that didn't look much different than the ASL. Their basic conformation is really very similar, it's the type that varies. That could not be accomplished simply by setting the dog in a different pose so I probably confused the issue by mentioning that in the same post.
by eddyelevation on 22 February 2013 - 21:02
aaykay excellent post great pictures of natural posing dogs................
nobody still has answered why the GSD people feel they have to pose or exhibit their dogs this way???
i just watched the westminster show no other breed was exhibited in this fashion??
isnt a dog in his natural standing position the best way to evaluate him??
i dont quite follow????
nobody still has answered why the GSD people feel they have to pose or exhibit their dogs this way???
i just watched the westminster show no other breed was exhibited in this fashion??
isnt a dog in his natural standing position the best way to evaluate him??
i dont quite follow????
by gsdstudent on 22 February 2013 - 21:02
eddy; you will not learn anything about GSD by watching Westminster. You will not learn much about any breed by watching TV.
by SitasMom on 22 February 2013 - 22:02
the 3 gsd photos.........all show a different conformation and thus the stack looks different. look at the length each of real leg bones ..... the proportions are different.
by Xeph on 22 February 2013 - 23:02
nobody still has answered why the GSD people feel they have to pose or exhibit their dogs this way???
Because they've been set up this way for 100+ years. Dunno why this is such a hard concept to follow?
Because they've been set up this way for 100+ years. Dunno why this is such a hard concept to follow?
by eddyelevation on 22 February 2013 - 23:02
really early pictures don't shoe dogs exhibited this way............where are the pictures of 100 years ago with dogs "stacked" that way.....please show me xeph???
by Rik on 22 February 2013 - 23:02
come on eddy, the question has been answered several times in both word and pic.
a recap just for you:
1. the show pose is an exagerated, forced stack for exibition purposes, during this phase the judge is evaluating certain aspects of the dog, but he is also evaluating during movement and during the individual exam.
2. most GSD often stand naturaly with one rear foot forward.
3. all dogs at any type show are posed in some way, usually to accent some desirable aspect of the anatomy. The GSD is not a four square dog, rear angles have always been an important part of the dogs make up and intended purpose. These angles have been carried to extreme by the show world and the long rears I doubt could hold up to a 12 hr. day of constant movement, but it is what it is.
4. No one has to accept the overdone rears, there are plenty of GSL as well as the WL that are not overdone.
5. Last, it's how the judge wants to see the dog and in a show ring the judge is king.
hth,
Rik
a recap just for you:
1. the show pose is an exagerated, forced stack for exibition purposes, during this phase the judge is evaluating certain aspects of the dog, but he is also evaluating during movement and during the individual exam.
2. most GSD often stand naturaly with one rear foot forward.
3. all dogs at any type show are posed in some way, usually to accent some desirable aspect of the anatomy. The GSD is not a four square dog, rear angles have always been an important part of the dogs make up and intended purpose. These angles have been carried to extreme by the show world and the long rears I doubt could hold up to a 12 hr. day of constant movement, but it is what it is.
4. No one has to accept the overdone rears, there are plenty of GSL as well as the WL that are not overdone.
5. Last, it's how the judge wants to see the dog and in a show ring the judge is king.
hth,
Rik
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