Discernment - Page 6

I think some on here are putting an overly negative intent by the authors of the above paragraph. The spin on the dogs with some of the above interpretations, ignores the intent of the paragraph is about: the type of person and their experience level with a powerful dog and who is also seeking a seeing eye dog from one of the various guide dog organizations.  I don't know why that is, because it has always been said on this board that the GSD is not the dog for everyone. So why would it follow that it would be the dog for every blind person in need of a seeing eye dog?

Those organizations pretty much state they have learned over the years to support their client needs through their own breedings. Self training your own dog is not done, apparently. 
 

beetree I would have agreed with you until I have seen recently people strongly disuade the use of german shepherds at all for service dog work. they are activly seeking to rule them out and it is not put to them as just based on level of experience conversations that I have heard.  It is an important part of the breed to be able to be stable enough to do both tasks that I think should be kept intact so that we do not loose the balance of the breed. We aretipping too much into just a sport dog or just a show dog. We must preserve the utility ability in the gsd. If the gsd disapears from service work , police work , and herding all we have left, is the fence of show dog or sport dog and that is not going well to get both to agree to anything even though both have to pass schutzhund titles <well AKC and CKC do not have to and that is a whole other kettle>. 

interesting thread but I am having a difficult time with ''mythical Stories'' in the opening of  ''Discernment''. I equate myth with unicorns not GSDs. I believe all behavior has a link to inherited temperament shaped by the environment. Why would one dog willingly open gates and another never do it in the same yard? I do not know for certain in this case, but could the explanation be that the dog perceived a correction which was enough to convinced it not  to open the gate  again? Maybe the gate startled it? A neighbor yelled ''no'' at the dog. Some logical reason? I heard a Vietnam war K9 handler tell  a story about his GSD. I Believe it is the Author of "Dog Tags''. He said his dog was new ''in the 'bush'' or jungle. They had the point or the lead of a formation of men. His dog froze and stopped him from moving forward with no clear reason to the handler. The handler took notice of the dog's warning and when he investigated discovered a ''trip wire'' to a boobie trap. The handler believes that the dog could hear a high pitch whine coming from the stretched, taunt wire. He had not been trained to reaction to this type of stimilus but reacted to it from the learned behavior in other parts of training. Myth or great reaction from learned behavior? In my limited involvement with sight dogs i have heard the trainers relate to how these dogs are trained to ignore commands which are problematic such as stepping off of a  high platform.

Which stories are you calling mythical? as far as gates go.... working in kennels teaches you, dogs open gates. It is not a rare talent. Some bump them by mistake and some knowingly remember how they once got that gate open before and repeat the trick. Many do it at kennels and their owners are not around, so it is not out of devotion/ love. 

I would also atribute that lead point dog to have smelled the enemy. A few minutes out there I am sure makes a huge impression on the odors to warn the dogs of what is ahead. Booby trap layers left scent I am sure that would have also told the dog the people that are shooting you and that you are chasing was there. In the jungle floor I do not think it was "wind" making the wire make sound as it is muggy and still in the air. My guess is it was scent left by the enemy IMO. 

Gustav: " mythical stories of the past " mostly are what they are - mythicals...
No, kidding, I think, the more prey drive is involved, the less discernment is possible.
That´s like men thinking with their lower part of the body....

Lassie had mythical discernment. 

Anyone remember the GSD that led the police car down the dark winding road to the burning house? That surely is discernment, too?

And I just want to reiterate about my gate-opening dog. It wasn't the fact he could do it, which is clever, but that it was discerning that he did it for the dog who could not. 

I agree the burning house incident is the epitomy if discernment. 

Opening a gate for a dog that cannot happens a lot. Horses that are stall door openers do it all the time to let other horses out. I am not convinced this is discernment.

one of the last persons I would want to argue with, is you Susie, the voice of reason. But I would maintain that a dog in prey drive is very teachable. Prey drive will cause a dog to chase a car. Being hit by a car or frighten by one will diminish or destroy the prey drive. It is a shapeable drive and with the proper motivation [ negative motivation ] the dog will discern prey worthy of a chase and prey which should be ignored. Why does the wolf chase an old and feeble deer over the young strong buck? Reward or failure of the  drive

I leased a bitch to a woman in GA. She was kenneled with her intended mate in a chain link fence with one of those sliding hasp closures. She had Taki a few weeks until, upon returning home from a show, she found her male gone, Taki inside the kennel with the hasp closed. She found her male  roaming around in the woods behind her house, less than half a mile from the kennel. He seemed confused and was obviously lost.This happened 2 more times so she decided to "hide" and watch what was going on. She couldn't understand how her male was getting out of that kennel while the gait was locked. As it turned out, my bitch flipped the hasp, letting both herself and the male out. She ran with him into the woods behind the house and soon returned without him. She then went back into the kennel and closed the gait.  Discernment? I don't know.

gsdstudent, ask my son, I´m no voice of reason at all...
But  take in mind - the more prey drive - the more lessons the dog will need to NOT chase the car....