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by k9pines on 05 May 2010 - 23:05
cwyldy,
These colors and patterns are not designer anything. They are in the GSD gene pool. They are by all rights GSD even if the colors were looked down by some that did not like them.
missbeeb,
These piebald puppies are not for sale, and my prices are more reasonable than many here in the states even for the blue's and livers.
bazza,
or should I say banana? LOL None of my dogs are crossed with huskies and as stated in a previous message the parents to my piebalds were not even born here. Many of my blue and liver dogs were purchased from other breeders. I am just working on my own lines which are DNA documented through AKC. It is good that you are learning more about the GSD breed, to know what colors are in the gene pool is important so if your dogs ever produce one you will know what you have, instead of calling them brown or gray, like some inexperienced people do.
If you do not like them that is your choice. Being disgusted over a color that the GSD can come in does not remove these colors or patterns from the gene pool.
Melisa Smith
www.k9-pines.com
These colors and patterns are not designer anything. They are in the GSD gene pool. They are by all rights GSD even if the colors were looked down by some that did not like them.
missbeeb,
These piebald puppies are not for sale, and my prices are more reasonable than many here in the states even for the blue's and livers.
bazza,
or should I say banana? LOL None of my dogs are crossed with huskies and as stated in a previous message the parents to my piebalds were not even born here. Many of my blue and liver dogs were purchased from other breeders. I am just working on my own lines which are DNA documented through AKC. It is good that you are learning more about the GSD breed, to know what colors are in the gene pool is important so if your dogs ever produce one you will know what you have, instead of calling them brown or gray, like some inexperienced people do.
If you do not like them that is your choice. Being disgusted over a color that the GSD can come in does not remove these colors or patterns from the gene pool.
Melisa Smith
www.k9-pines.com
by Wildmoor on 06 May 2010 - 00:05
Coat colours in canines have many natural phenotypic variants. Some of the genes and alleles involved also cause genetic developmental defects. The merle phenotype includes a lack of eumelanic pigmentation and developmental defects, hearing impairments and microphthalmia.
Benoit Hédan et al 2006
Two major health issues may arise with blue coat dogs.
(CDA) as stated previously and acyclic neutropenia.
Here is another quote from you
'Hello, Did you find any info on the locating the CDA issue in this breed? We are seeing it in the blue German Shepherds too and need to find help to locate the gene and test to breed away from it as not all blue German Shepherds are affected. Any help would be appreciated. Melisa Smith ' 29/9/08 06:54
So you are obviously aware of the problems relating to colour arent you!
Benoit Hédan et al 2006
Two major health issues may arise with blue coat dogs.
(CDA) as stated previously and acyclic neutropenia.
Here is another quote from you
'Hello, Did you find any info on the locating the CDA issue in this breed? We are seeing it in the blue German Shepherds too and need to find help to locate the gene and test to breed away from it as not all blue German Shepherds are affected. Any help would be appreciated. Melisa Smith ' 29/9/08 06:54
So you are obviously aware of the problems relating to colour arent you!
by Wildmoor on 06 May 2010 - 00:05
Bazza knows more about the GSD than you ever will
why are these mutant colours like in the pics of the pup only in American GSDs if you can call them that, again avoiding my questions in my earlier posts.
why are these mutant colours like in the pics of the pup only in American GSDs if you can call them that, again avoiding my questions in my earlier posts.
by Uber Land on 06 May 2010 - 00:05
well, not only in america.
Have people forgotten about the beautiful piebald blk/red female born last year in Austrialia? out of very prominent german showline imports? there were several updated threads on her with pictures. I believe she didn't get DNA'd because the sires owner was afraid of the proof that her prized/expensive male produced such a color.
and the first panda was sired by a german working line male, mom was german lines too.
So I don't think it is just an "american" thing. you just see more of them over here because we won't cull them because they're born the wrong color, and we don't see them as shameful abominations like some other breeders.
Have people forgotten about the beautiful piebald blk/red female born last year in Austrialia? out of very prominent german showline imports? there were several updated threads on her with pictures. I believe she didn't get DNA'd because the sires owner was afraid of the proof that her prized/expensive male produced such a color.
and the first panda was sired by a german working line male, mom was german lines too.
So I don't think it is just an "american" thing. you just see more of them over here because we won't cull them because they're born the wrong color, and we don't see them as shameful abominations like some other breeders.
by Saratoga on 06 May 2010 - 00:05
Well well here we go again another bunch of pious back stabbing hypocrites, and all because you are so afraid that Joe public might enjoy something a little different from the norm.
You seem to think you have the right to tell not only the Kennel club what it should and should not allow, but also to tell anyone who wishes to have something new that is not allowed either.
You really do think you are above anyone else just because you happen to breed one particular strain of Dog
You do not own the KC and you do not have the right to tell others what they can and cant breed. If you were to get your facts right one of the links you have posted has no mention of a panda pup just gorgeous dogs that anyone would be proud to own unless they were total idiots like you Pam (Wildmoor) Husky ??? no don't think so, and Bazza with the stupid mutant remark then covering his tracks with mongrel fool.
Never heard the story of the first registered German Shepherd (Horand Von Grafrath) that originally had a white for a Granddaddy (Grief Spar Wasser)ha! ha! no mention of that in your post where all your Black and Tans and ALL other German Shepherds I might add Originated from, was there??
Just because you breed black and tan doesn't mean to say that it is the only colour there has to be are you going to say Sable is not a recognized colour as well or is it just that you have such closed minds you cant see further than your own limitations and Breed specification
Pull your head out of the sandpit Pam breed what you want to and let others do the same its a big world and plenty of room for all.
Epilepsy HD and all other Hereditary Diseases along back street breeders is more of a problem than colour ever will be .
You seem to think you have the right to tell not only the Kennel club what it should and should not allow, but also to tell anyone who wishes to have something new that is not allowed either.
You really do think you are above anyone else just because you happen to breed one particular strain of Dog
You do not own the KC and you do not have the right to tell others what they can and cant breed. If you were to get your facts right one of the links you have posted has no mention of a panda pup just gorgeous dogs that anyone would be proud to own unless they were total idiots like you Pam (Wildmoor) Husky ??? no don't think so, and Bazza with the stupid mutant remark then covering his tracks with mongrel fool.
Never heard the story of the first registered German Shepherd (Horand Von Grafrath) that originally had a white for a Granddaddy (Grief Spar Wasser)ha! ha! no mention of that in your post where all your Black and Tans and ALL other German Shepherds I might add Originated from, was there??
Just because you breed black and tan doesn't mean to say that it is the only colour there has to be are you going to say Sable is not a recognized colour as well or is it just that you have such closed minds you cant see further than your own limitations and Breed specification
Pull your head out of the sandpit Pam breed what you want to and let others do the same its a big world and plenty of room for all.
Epilepsy HD and all other Hereditary Diseases along back street breeders is more of a problem than colour ever will be .
by VomMarischal on 06 May 2010 - 01:05
"Well well here we go again another bunch of pious back stabbing hypocrites, and all because you are so afraid that Joe public might enjoy something a little different from the norm. "
Not a bit. Just don't call them GSDs.
Not a bit. Just don't call them GSDs.
by Uber Land on 06 May 2010 - 01:05
why not call them gsd's? You mean to tell me the livers sired recently by VA Larus Batu, and several VA Timo daughters have produced livers, you mean they produced mix breeds, and those pups aren't gsd?
the german showline people breed for color, do they not? isn't the reddest dog you can produce the going thing? how come we don't see many sables or blk/tans placing high at the shows? cause the judges and breeders are breeding for the blk/red, its gotten soo bad, breeders have stooped to dying their dogs in hopes of placing at competition.
I don't care what color of gsd a person chooses to breed as long as they are also concerned with the health of the dogs and temperments. unforntunately, alot, of the off color breeders don't care to do health testing. but there are a few who are doing health testing, temperment testing, having working ability eval., and show in conformation. they will be the ones who make the off colors more acceptable.
as for the UKC Blue Champion Jodel's the Phtantom, aka Dunny. I knew his breeder and we had many a conversation about how he won his championship, and what she thought about him. Dunny was shown under judges who looked at conformation and really didn't judge a dog by its color. and the original blue AKC Champion was Hoobin's Gray Boy. the story behind him and the off colors losing AKC acceptance goes back to envious breeders whose dogs placed BEHIND a blue.
the german showline people breed for color, do they not? isn't the reddest dog you can produce the going thing? how come we don't see many sables or blk/tans placing high at the shows? cause the judges and breeders are breeding for the blk/red, its gotten soo bad, breeders have stooped to dying their dogs in hopes of placing at competition.
I don't care what color of gsd a person chooses to breed as long as they are also concerned with the health of the dogs and temperments. unforntunately, alot, of the off color breeders don't care to do health testing. but there are a few who are doing health testing, temperment testing, having working ability eval., and show in conformation. they will be the ones who make the off colors more acceptable.
as for the UKC Blue Champion Jodel's the Phtantom, aka Dunny. I knew his breeder and we had many a conversation about how he won his championship, and what she thought about him. Dunny was shown under judges who looked at conformation and really didn't judge a dog by its color. and the original blue AKC Champion was Hoobin's Gray Boy. the story behind him and the off colors losing AKC acceptance goes back to envious breeders whose dogs placed BEHIND a blue.
by k9pines on 06 May 2010 - 02:05
Wildmoor wrote: Coat colours in canines have many natural phenotypic variants. Some of the genes and alleles involved also cause genetic developmental defects. The merle phenotype includes a lack of eumelanic pigmentation and developmental defects, hearing impairments and microphthalmia.
Benoit Hédan et al 2006
What does this have to do with Blue GSD?
Wildooor wrote: Two major health issues may arise with blue coat dogs.
(CDA) as stated previously and acyclic neutropenia.
Acyclic neutropenia is associated with gray collie syndrome and is NOT the gene as the blue gene in the GSD, so this has no bearing on blue GSD. CDA is associated with SOME blue dogs it is also associated with black hair as well. Please read the link I sent as it is known as black hair follicular displasia. The fact that I know what it is and have attempted to locate as much information about it as possible and educate those that have it shows I care and do not want to see it plague all of the blue GSD. Unlike the Dobes that wanted the blues so quickly, line bred and inbred to get it, and doubled up on it, it infiltrated their lines.
Wildmoor wrote: Here is another quote from you
'Hello, Did you find any info on the locating the CDA issue in this breed? We are seeing it in the blue German Shepherds too and need to find help to locate the gene and test to breed away from it as not all blue German Shepherds are affected. Any help would be appreciated. Melisa Smith ' 29/9/08 06:54
So you are obviously aware of the problems relating to colour arent you?
That is the ONLY quote from me as the previous thing you said was a QUOTE (about Willy Wonka) was a MISQUOTE, and yes I asked that question and YES I know it is in some lines, however repeating I have not produced and I am careful about where I get my blues from too.
How about a link to see your dogs too? and a name so I know who I am talking to?
Thanks, Melisa Smith www.k9-pines.com
Benoit Hédan et al 2006
What does this have to do with Blue GSD?
Wildooor wrote: Two major health issues may arise with blue coat dogs.
(CDA) as stated previously and acyclic neutropenia.
Acyclic neutropenia is associated with gray collie syndrome and is NOT the gene as the blue gene in the GSD, so this has no bearing on blue GSD. CDA is associated with SOME blue dogs it is also associated with black hair as well. Please read the link I sent as it is known as black hair follicular displasia. The fact that I know what it is and have attempted to locate as much information about it as possible and educate those that have it shows I care and do not want to see it plague all of the blue GSD. Unlike the Dobes that wanted the blues so quickly, line bred and inbred to get it, and doubled up on it, it infiltrated their lines.
Wildmoor wrote: Here is another quote from you
'Hello, Did you find any info on the locating the CDA issue in this breed? We are seeing it in the blue German Shepherds too and need to find help to locate the gene and test to breed away from it as not all blue German Shepherds are affected. Any help would be appreciated. Melisa Smith ' 29/9/08 06:54
So you are obviously aware of the problems relating to colour arent you?
That is the ONLY quote from me as the previous thing you said was a QUOTE (about Willy Wonka) was a MISQUOTE, and yes I asked that question and YES I know it is in some lines, however repeating I have not produced and I am careful about where I get my blues from too.
How about a link to see your dogs too? and a name so I know who I am talking to?
Thanks, Melisa Smith www.k9-pines.com
by VomMarischal on 06 May 2010 - 02:05
No, I don't think they are. I think what they are called is "culls." I think they should be neutered/pet placed and not bred because they are not true GSDs but throwbacks to before the breed became what it is today.
by Uber Land on 06 May 2010 - 02:05
like it or not
they have always been and always will be german shepherds. they were the foundation for the breed. these colors have always been there, no matter how hard some breeders have tried to breed them out.
and if any fingers should be pointed, it should be towards the german breeders who are linebreding the dogs into a genetic bottleneck. you see dogs going back to recent VA Siegers 5-6 times in their 5-6 gen pedigree, thats too much, and you wonder where these colors are coming from. from what I've seen, most of the colors are from import dogs.
if people weren't so hush hush about this topic, no telling what patterns or colors we would know about. these things are kept secret, swept under the rug, and everyone acts all surprised when a weird pattern or off color pops up in one of their litters
they have always been and always will be german shepherds. they were the foundation for the breed. these colors have always been there, no matter how hard some breeders have tried to breed them out.
and if any fingers should be pointed, it should be towards the german breeders who are linebreding the dogs into a genetic bottleneck. you see dogs going back to recent VA Siegers 5-6 times in their 5-6 gen pedigree, thats too much, and you wonder where these colors are coming from. from what I've seen, most of the colors are from import dogs.
if people weren't so hush hush about this topic, no telling what patterns or colors we would know about. these things are kept secret, swept under the rug, and everyone acts all surprised when a weird pattern or off color pops up in one of their litters
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