I'm a backyard breeder........... - Page 7

Define best.

"That was a different time and day"....my point exactly....in this different time and day WHEN the dogs were structurally and mentally sounder for working purposes, people didn't need referrals to sell or buy dogs. Today, we have the syllabus and dogs that not the utility dog that the breed was created for. Why haven't the syllabus breeders corrected the problem.?

Define best.

Really?

I think "best" has been defined multiple times in this thread and thousands of others. 

For starters........(generally speaking....though I feel as though I am repeating the "thousands of others")

Dogs that aren't health tested.......aren't the best.
Dogs that aren't worked in some form.........aren't the best.
Dogs that are bred solely to produce puppies..........aren't the best.
(Generally speaking...) Dogs (of any breed) who have questionable temperaments, poor structure causing physical issues, unknown health history due to lack of any sort of Veterinary care or testing................aren't the best.

Hi Moons, Yes you are right, there are more than three categories, but this is a message board and I chose to keep it simple. In my above post, I stated that there were sub categories and I figured that was enough.   If you want me to expound a little I will...but just a little :).Within the working lines there is the east german and the west german and the czech dog...  Then there is the Alsatian in the UK... and the long coats, the white GSDs, the over-sized....and the list goes on.

Yes, some of the best may have been bred in a backyard, but I seriously doubt the breedings were done at random without any thought involved.

Either one supports the BYB mentality or they don't and I don't.

So Gustav, I am curious as to whether or not you think BYBs are the answer. I can't imagine anyone would think so, but am a little confused about where you stand.
Char

I have been thinking about this and it seems that based on some of the comments here, some of you are opposed to the SV requirements for breeding (hips, elbows and title, etc.), yet you have likely chosen to own European dogs rather than the AM showline GSD...who were never required to much of anything except move "pretty".  I f I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say, then I apologize, but would appreciate hearing what you think the answer to the GSD world may be.

Gustav, I know what you're saying and I agree wholeheartedly.

Charlie, no matter how many times I ask, you don't seem to understand the question. Marko was born in the late 60's...if I remember correctly. WHAT GENERATION QUALIFIES A DOG AS A "MARKO CELLERAND DOG" in your opinion? I'm betting you're hard pressed to find one w/him in the first 3 generations, so what, in your mind, qualifies a dog as a candidate for breeding b/c it's a "Marko dog"?

As to the rest of my post about my dog (the linebred Bernd Lierberg dog), that was total sarcasm. I was joking, trying to make a point and get you to qualify that statement. Went right over your head. That's almost akin to saying "my dog goes back to Horand." LOL

I agree with you 1000%, Jenn! Well-stated. Re: Marko: My first sch dog was a bitch born in 1992. I lost her 5 years ago at 13 1/2. Marko was four back in her pedigree. In dog years, those 18 years =a dozen generations by now. There are no "Marko v Cellerland dogs." There may be some born in the last several years with Marko appearing several times, many generations back in their pedigree. That is the most. Gustav, you cracked me up! I have a visual of a bunch of fingers goodgling "Alfred Hahn." Let's go down the line of the "departed" kennels/breeders who bred that well-rounded gsd with structure, temperament, workkng ability, nerve that could work, trot around a ring (when necessary). Busecker Schloss gone Beilstein gone

 Thanks, Mystere. I was beginning to again question whether I may be losing my mind. LOL

My oldest male has Marko in his 5th and 6th, I think...off the top of my head. He is VERY unusual in some of the dogs he has "close" up for a dog his age. I specifically was looking for older lines when I got him, and the fact that his sire was about 10 when he was born, and his sire before him accounts for some of the "old" stuff appearing closer. Bernd in his 6th...and a million times more as it goes back....but so freaking what? What does that prove? I would hardly call him a "Bernd Lierberg" male. 

I really want Charlie to answer what he meant though. I'm curious, and I don't know why he got all defensive ("cry me a river"...) when I asked again. 

Mystere,
the irony is the same people googling Alfred Hahn are in many cases preaching to others about what a breeder should be. Hell, if you don't know your history, you can't know the important elements of breeding,especially during the time when the breed was as you described Mystere.
Starrchar, all I can say is that I don't try to meet the many criteria that some have stated is necessary to NOT be a backyard breeder. This being the case and the disdain shown for BYB, it really doesn't make any sense for me to put forth my philosophy. All I can say is I have been an extremely lucky breeder over the years in that my dogs constantly luck up into working environments.